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Single Grave Corded Ware R1b-L51?

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  • #31
    I added some river names to the map from the last post to help orient the reader.

    Włodarczak's map with river names.jpg

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    • #32
      So, if Catacombnaya was all R1b-Z2103 and I2a, as has been suggested by some, why is it neither of those Y-DNA haplogroups has turned up in Corded Ware in SE Poland?

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      • #33
        HUGE news for Corded Ware descendants! Check out the new video from David Reich, especially at around 45:00 and after. Reich says he can show that Corded Ware was descended from Yamnaya, because now they are able to see distant cousin relationships among ancient DNA samples. It also looks like Corded Ware was the product of the mixing of Yamnaya males with some Globular Amphora females. Corded Ware was mostly Yamnaya, since the proportion of Yamnaya DNA in CWC ranges from about 60% - 80%, and the Y-DNA haplogroups are Yamnaya Y-DNA haplogroups.

        Last edited by Stevo; 5 March 2021, 02:28 PM.

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        • #34
          Still no news on the long-awaited Single Grave Corded Ware paper that is supposed to have R1b-L51 in it in a fairly big way. My hopes are still high that it will appear sometime soon.

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          • #35
            Here's a map from page 7 of a paper by Louise Olerud, "The time-depth of Corded Ware burial landscapes: A comparative study of Single Grave and Battle Axe burial alignments in Denmark, The Netherlands and Sweden". I added the culture labels to make things easier. "Ocher Grave" is not a Corded Ware variant. "Ocher Grave" (Ochre Grave) is another name for Yamnaya.

            Olerud's map shows you the location of the Single Grave Corded Ware culture.

            Corded Ware_regional variants_Olerud_p. 7.jpg

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            • #36
              Olerud's map does not list all of the regional Corded Ware variants. Here is a list of ten of them based on pages 469-472 of Janusz Czebreszuk's chapter, "Corded Ware from East to West", in the book, Ancient Europe 8000 BC- AD 1000, Bogucki and Crabtree, editors (2004).
              1. Single Grave Culture
              2. Protruding Foot Beaker Culture (really a subset of Single Grave)
              3. Corded Ware of the Alpine Pile Dwellings
              4. Central German Corded Ware
              5. Bohemian-Moravian Corded Ware
              6. Małopolska Corded Ware
              7. Battle-Axe Culture
              8. Rzucewo Culture
              9. Middle Dnieper Culture
              10. Fatyanovo Culture
              Czebreszuk includes the Złota culture in his list of Corded Ware variants, but that was controversial, since Złota is really different from Corded Ware and is a lot more like Funnel Beaker or Globular Amphora. Recent ancient DNA test results show that Złota culture people were unlike Corded Ware people and were like other Neolithic farmers.
              Last edited by Stevo; 13 March 2021, 06:36 AM.

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              • #37
                Regarding the regional Corded Ware variants listed above, we have the following R1b results, not including the rumor of an upcoming paper featuring a lot of R1b-L51 in Single Grave.

                Single Grave Culture -
                1. Gjerrild5, R1b-V1636, Gjerrild, Denmark, 2343-2055 BC (Egfjord 2021)
                Corded Ware of the Alpine Pile Dwellings -
                1. MX304, R1b-L52, Auvernier, Switzerland, 2866-2601 BC (Furtwängler 2020)
                2. Aesch25, R1b-L151, Aesch, Switzerland, 2864-2501 BC (Furtwängler 2020)
                3. MX310, R1b-M269, Burgäschisee, Switzerland, 2862-2581 BC (Furtwängler 2020)
                Central German Corded Ware -
                1. ALT_4, R1b-L52, Althausen, Germany, 2570-2458 BC (Mittnik 2019)
                Małopolska Corded Ware -
                1. pcw361, R1b-L52, Łubcze, Poland, 2459-2351 BC (Linderholm 2020)
                2. pcw362, R1b-L52, Łubcze, Poland, 2459-2351 BC (Linderholm 2020)
                3. pcw350, R1b-M269, Łubcze, Poland, 2458-2353 BC (Linderholm 2020)
                4. pcw040, R1b-L52, Święte, Jarosław, Poland, 2479-2349 BC (Linderholm 2020)
                5. pcw041, R1b-M269 (probably L52, since he is likely the father of pcw040 above), Święte, Jarosław, Poland, 2479-2349 BC (Linderholm 2020)
                6. pcw070, R1b-L51, Święte, Jarosław, Poland, 2461-2351 BC (Linderholm 2020)
                7. pcw110, R1b-L23, Szczytna, Jarosław, Poland, (no date) (Linderholm 2020)
                8. pcw160, R1b-M269, Mirocin, Poland, 2459-2352 BC (Linderholm 2020)
                Battle-Axe Culture -
                1. RISE98, R1b-U106, Lilla Beddinge, Sweden, 2275-2032 BC (Allentoft 2015)
                Unknown Regional Variant -
                1. RISE1, R1b-M343, Obłaczkowo, Poland, 2865-2578 BC (Allentoft 2015)
                Hope I didn't leave any out.
                Last edited by Stevo; 13 March 2021, 07:21 AM.

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                • #38
                  If you are interested in discussing R1b-L51, Corded Ware, Yamnaya, and the Proto-Indo-Europeans on social media, we have an R1b-L51 Indo-Europeans group at MeWe:

                  https://mewe.com/join/r1b-l51indo-europeans

                  If you join, please post something.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Stevo View Post
                    If you are interested in discussing R1b-L51, Corded Ware, Yamnaya, and the Proto-Indo-Europeans on social media, we have an R1b-L51 Indo-Europeans group at MeWe:

                    https://mewe.com/join/r1b-l51indo-europeans

                    If you join, please post something.
                    I started the same group at Gab, if you prefer that, but thus far I'm the only member there.

                    https://gab.com/groups/38970

                    In case you're wondering, I don't do Facebook anymore.

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                    • #40
                      We're still waiting for the rumored big Single Grave Corded Ware paper. Sigh . . .

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Stevo View Post
                        We're still waiting for the rumored big Single Grave Corded Ware paper. Sigh . . .
                        Wish I had some news, but I don't. Some time ago I heard from the source of the rumor about this upcoming paper. He's reliable but will remain anonymous. He informed me of the details of at least one confirmed R1b-L51 Single Grave Corded Ware result. Looked pretty authoritative and authentic.

                        But when will we see the scientific paper?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Stevo View Post

                          Wish I had some news, but I don't. Some time ago I heard from the source of the rumor about this upcoming paper. He's reliable but will remain anonymous. He informed me of the details of at least one confirmed R1b-L51 Single Grave Corded Ware result. Looked pretty authoritative and authentic.

                          But when will we see the scientific paper?
                          Still waiting. Will I live to see the paper? Lord knows.

                          skeleton waiting.jpeg

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