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Single Grave Corded Ware R1b-L51?

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  • Single Grave Corded Ware R1b-L51?

    Recently the author of the Eurogenes blog, who has the inside track with the professionals who do ancient dna, said that a paper is coming soon that shows that Single Grave Corded Ware was R1b-L51. This makes sense, because the L21+ Beaker men from Olalde et al were very Corded Ware-like (L21 is downstream of L51). Beaker apparently was a development from Corded Ware. Corded Ware is a little earlier and about 80% steppe dna.

    I am really looking forward to this paper. Hope they got more than one L51+ Single Grave sample.

  • #2
    Here is a Google spreadsheet showing the R1b found in Corded Ware thus far. There is much more to come, apparently.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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    • #3
      Somebody posted elsewhere there's now more R1b CW than R1a which took me rather by surprise since these R1b results are relatively new whilst they've been digging up R1a CW for years now.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
        Somebody posted elsewhere there's now more R1b CW than R1a which took me rather by surprise since these R1b results are relatively new whilst they've been digging up R1a CW for years now.
        Wow! That's pretty amazing!

        I'm really anxiously looking forward to all the papers that are supposed to be just around the corner. Hope at least one really good one emerges soon, while summer is still on and I have the time to really dig into it.

        Of course, the way things are going, I may be working from home again when the school year starts in the fall.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Stevo View Post

          Wow! That's pretty amazing!

          I'm really anxiously looking forward to all the papers that are supposed to be just around the corner. Hope at least one really good one emerges soon, while summer is still on and I have the time to really dig into it.

          Of course, the way things are going, I may be working from home again when the school year starts in the fall.
          Got a friend who's a support worker in higher education who's been told she'll be working from home until January !!!!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post

            Got a friend who's a support worker in higher education who's been told she'll be working from home until January !!!!
            That wouldn't surprise me in my case, either. For one thing, I'm getting up there in age. I'm not sure my school district is going to want to expose me to the possibility of infection. This coming school year is my last year with my district. I am supposed to retire at the end of it.

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            • #7
              This is from pages 469-470 of "Corded Ware from East to West", by Janusz Czebreszuk, from the book, Ancient Europe, 8000 BC - 1000 AD, Peter Bogucki and Pam Crabtree, editors (2004).

              Single Grave Culture. Research into the Single Grave culture played a key role in the course of research into the whole of Corded Ware. On its basis, a typology of basic Corded Ware objects and finds was worked out. The Single Grave culture is known mainly for graves covered by barrows, in which one individual was laid in the fetal position on an eastwest axis. In addition to the barrow burial rite introduced by the Single Grave culture, other types of tombs (mainly megalithic) dating to a previous time in prehistory were still being used by this group. The grave goods in the burials became standardized. The constant elements were the battle-axe and the beaker. In addition, flint axes were placed in the graves along with flint flakes and amber objects, among which the most spectacular are disks several centimeters in diameter with a central hole. There are few visible traces of settlements, though it is thought that there was significant progress in this regard during the Single Grave era. Dwellings were being built in the form of post houses of a light construction. The basic method of subsistence was the raising of livestock (especially cattle). Pollen diagrams indicate that open areas (pastures) increased as forest was cleared. In the pollen diagrams there is no indication of an increase in grain cultivation. During the development of the Single Grave culture, the practice of making sacri´Čüces by depositing artifacts in swamps continued from previous cultures.

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              • #8
                The following is from page 375 of the same book, in the article by Sarunas Milisauskas entitled, "Late Neolithic/Copper Age Europe":

                Since cultural traits such as burial mounds, cord-ornamented pottery, and battle-axes occur in both the Corded Ware and the Pit Grave (Yamnaya) cultures, some archaeologists believe that the Corded Ware peoples were immigrant descendants from Pit Grave populations in southern Russia and Ukraine.

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                • #9
                  Here's another quote from the book, Ancient Europe, 8000 BC - 1000 AD, Peter Bogucki and Pam Crabtree, editors (2004), this one from the article, "Late Neolithic/Copper Age Eastern Europe", by Malcolm Lillie (page 355).

                  While early researchers have attributed the widespread appearance of the Corded Ware assemblages with an invasion of nomadic pastoralists from the south Russian steppes, the assemblage, characterized by Corded Ware pottery and battleaxes in burials, is most likely indicative of changing roles of the individual in society. Earlier communities emphasized the group identity; the Corded Ware assemblages indicate a status-related emphasis on males, the rise of the individual, and an emphasis on personal wealth and status. In addition, the assemblages reflect the widespread movement of prestige items through trade and/or exchange across large areas of Europe during the later Neolithic.
                  Ancient dna has proven those early researchers right and the immobilists wrong. People actually migrated; it wasn't just "indicative of changing roles of the individual in society". We know that now.
                  Last edited by Stevo; 13 July 2020, 06:49 PM.

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                  • #10
                    This is from page 427 of the same book already quoted several times above, this time from the article, "Consequences of Farming in Southern Scandinavia", by Magdalena S. Midgley. I'm not trying to criticize Mrs. Midgley - she did not have all the evidence when she wrote - but ancient dna has since completely overturned the idea of a local emergence of Corded Ware in Scandinavia. Corded Ware men really were "horse-mounted eastern warriors".

                    Although in the past fanciful notions of horse-mounted eastern warriors were evoked to explain the appearance of the Corded Ware culture in Europe, it now seems that a local, if regionally diversified, emergence is a more appropriate working concept. Indeed there is sufficient evidence to show a degree of continuity from the late Funnel Beaker culture to the subsequent Corded Ware culture and to demonstrate that the process of social and economic change, which ultimately led to the emergence of the Corded Ware culture over much of southern Scandinavia, can be perceived within the later Funnel Beaker culture.
                    Here's more up-to-date information from page 110 of David Reich's book, Who We Are and How We Got Here.

                    The genetic data thus settled a long-standing debate in archaeology about linkages between the Corded Ware and the Yamnaya cultures. The two had many striking parallels, such as the construction of large burial mounds, the intensive exploitation of horses and herding, and a strikingly male-centered culture that celebrated violence, as reflected in the great maces (or hammer-axes) buried in some graves. At the same time, there were profound differences between the two cultures, notably the entirely different types of pottery that they made, with important elements of the Corded Ware style adapted from previous central European pottery styles. But the genetics showed that the connection between the Corded Ware culture and the Yamnaya culture reflected major movements of people. The makers of the Corded Ware culture were, at least in a genetic sense, a westward extension of Yamnaya.
                    Ibid, page 112:

                    Our finding about the genetic link between the Yamnaya and the Corded Ware culture demonstrates the disruptive power of ancient DNA. It can prove past movements of people, and in this case documented a magnitude of population replacement that no modern archaeologist, even the most ardent supporter of migrations, had dared to propose. The association between steppe genetic ancestry and people assigned to the Corded Ware archaeological culture through graves and artifacts is not simply a hypothesis. It is now a proven fact.
                    Last edited by Stevo; 15 July 2020, 07:38 AM.

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                    • #11
                      If you all have not seen this video from archaeologist Kristian Kristiansen, you should watch it. If you have seen it, it wouldn't hurt to watch it again.

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                      • #12
                        From page 254 of Mallory's In Search of the Indo-Europeans:

                        There is no question that a number of notable and quite knowledgeable archaeologists support the concept of some form of genetic relationship between the steppe and the Corded Ware horizon - either by simple intrusion or by some complex process of assimilation and convergence within the forest-steppe zone between the Dnieper and Vistula. They provide us with enough evidence to charge, but not enough to convict.
                        Ancient dna has changed that. Now there is plenty of evidence to convict.

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                        • #13
                          Doesn't look like this thread is stirring much interest, but by far most of you guys out there with R-M269 results from FTDNA, whether you know it or not, also belong to R1b haplogroups downstream of (descended from) L51. Here is how L51 is descended from M269:

                          M269>L23>L51

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                          • #14
                            As most of you no doubt know, up until about 9,000 years ago, Europe was inhabited by small bands of wandering hunter-gatherers. Then, beginning about 9,000 years ago, Neolithic farmers from the Near East began arriving in southern Europe. They brought seeds, animals, and farming techniques with them. Near Eastern Neolithic farmers spread throughout Europe, at first displacing and then later mixing with the native European hunter-gatherers.

                            By about five and a half thousand years ago, most Europeans were a genetic mix of Neolithic farmer and native European hunter-gatherer.

                            Now, however, modern Europeans and persons of European descent carry a third component in addition to Neolithic farmer and native European hunter-gatherer. That third component is steppe dna, which arrived in Europe west of the steppe in the third millennium BC along with y-dna haplogroups R1b-M269 and R1a-M417.

                            For a more detailed description of the process, see David Reich's book, Who We Are and How We Got Here, especially chapters 4 and 5.
                            Last edited by Stevo; 20 July 2020, 09:54 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Here's a map that shows the ancient positions of Corded Ware, Yamnaya and Afanasievo.

                              Indo-Europeans_Yamnaya_Corded Ware_Afanasievo.jpg

                              The recent paper, "A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia's Eastern Steppe", by Jeong et al, turned up an R1b-P310 (M269>L23>L51>P310) in the Afanasievo culture in what is now Mongolia, rc dated to 3112-2917 BC, which makes it the oldest P310 thus far known. That R1b-P310 is sample I6222.

                              So, thus far L51 (including its subclades) has been found in Beaker, Corded Ware, and Afanasievo. Will it turn up in Yamnaya, as well?

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