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I1 - M253

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  • I1 - M253

    Hi!

    I received my Y-DNA 67 markers result today (the 111 marker test is pending).

    I am predicted M253 by FTDNA and is adviced to take some of the following SNP tests to better specify my subgroup:

    M21! - I1a
    M227! - I1b
    M72! - I1b1
    P259! - I1c
    L22! - I1d
    P109! - I1d1
    L205! - I1d2
    L287! - I1d3
    L258! - I1d3a
    L300! - I1d4
    L211! - I1e

    I am not sure what is the best first choice, or should I wait for my 111 markers is done?

    Thanks in advance for any advice! I have just now joined the I1 Y-DNA haplogroup project

    / Peter

  • #2
    I compared my Allele to basic I1* and got this:



    If I look at what markers that differ from I1* (yellow on black background) and skip the ones with higher mutation rate than 5.0 I am left with the following:
    • [4] DYS391 - 11
    • [15] DYS459b - 8
    • [18] DYS447 - 24
    • [19] DYS437 - 15
    • [36] DYS442 - 10
    • [49] DYS443a - 22
    • [50] DYS443b - 23
    • [59] DYS520 - 21
    • [66] DYS492 - 13


    Like this:


    Can that information point me in any "direction" of what subgroup of I1 that I most probably is?

    Comment


    • #3
      This is a fairly useful link that can lead you in the right direction,

      http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/haplotest.htm

      Have you joined the Haplogroup I1 project? You can also use this link to help you perhaps find a possible place in the Haplogroup I tree: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/

      From my own punching in of your numbers I get I1-M253-ML and I1-M253-AS9a, at varying percentages everytime but that is normal.

      http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html, the new ISOGG Haplogroup I tree.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by spruithean View Post
        This is a fairly useful link that can lead you in the right direction,

        http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/haplotest.htm

        Have you joined the Haplogroup I1 project? You can also use this link to help you perhaps find a possible place in the Haplogroup I tree: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/

        From my own punching in of your numbers I get I1-M253-ML and I1-M253-AS9a, at varying percentages everytime but that is normal.

        http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html, the new ISOGG Haplogroup I tree.
        Thanks!

        I ran the Cullen predictor too now and got:
        I-M253-AS9a =>58%
        I-M253-AS3 =>15%
        I-M253-ASgen =>10%
        I-M253-ML =>4%

        I am not sure what AS9a is so I guess I have to search information about it. (is AS9a a pseudonym for something else?).

        It is somewhat confusing with all the different versions of the haplotree, but I guess that is a good thing and tells you DNA is an area of science where aggressive progress is taking place.

        Yes, I have joined the I1-project so if I dont get it I hope they point me in the right direction

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Peter

          Haplogroup I researcher, Ken Nordtvedt, has posted some resources that might be helpful for planning a testing strategy. He has a table of identified subclades (groupings):
          http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/T...modalities.xls

          Your results are not a good match to any specific subclade, but share many values with some of the Z382+ subclades (rows 35-41). The Z382 sub-branch can be seen here: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/T...8+%20Z60-.pptx
          From general to specific, ISOGG has the SNPs as M253>DF29>Z58>Z59>Z382.
          http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html

          Nordvedt's tree also includes a few newer SNPs (Z2040, Z2041, Z2038).

          Z382+ is just a guess on my part. You could start there, and if negative, move backwards. Or you could start with DF29 or Z58 or Z59, and move up the branch, if you get positive results. (You are definitely not on the L22 branch.)

          These markers are a little tricky to order, since they are not yet on FTDNA's official SNP Tree (last updated in 2010). The new SNP's have to be ordered from Advanced Orders.

          Click on the orange Order an Upgrade button, upper right-hand corner of the page.
          Click on the orange Order an Advanced Test button. (not the 'Order an Advanced SNP Test' button)
          Set Test Type to SNP
          Type in the SNP you want, then click Find.

          Steve
          Last edited by s trangsrud; 9th February 2014, 04:15 AM. Reason: I forgot to add the ISOGG Hap-I Tree link

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Steve!

            That was really helpful information, now I have some reading to do

            So far I have understood that the subclade (as AS9a) prediction mostly is based on STR-values and that the marker that point me in the AngloSaxon direction is the DYS511 being 9 instead of 10. I thought the best choice was to wait for the 111-results coming in to verify that with the DYS462 being 12 instead of 13.

            But as you say my markers seems to be a sort of mix of the different subclades, so it is a little confusing.

            I think I will go for two or three SNP tests and if I hit none I will save my money for the Big Y instead.

            This is really exciting I must say.

            Comment


            • #7
              The clades of AS, N, ML and so on are mainly ways to organize all the different haplotypes. Do not assume your ancestry is Anglo-Saxon in this case.

              The SNPs Steve mentioned can be quite useful, take a look at the ISOGG 2014 Haplogroup I-M170 tree I linked. The I1 DNA project will also show the SNPs that seem to correlate with certain STR patterns in the titles for each different section.


              Steve's advice is spot on.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                The clades of AS, N, ML and so on are mainly ways to organize all the different haplotypes. Do not assume your ancestry is Anglo-Saxon in this case.

                The SNPs Steve mentioned can be quite useful, take a look at the ISOGG 2014 Haplogroup I-M170 tree I linked. The I1 DNA project will also show the SNPs that seem to correlate with certain STR patterns in the titles for each different section.


                Steve's advice is spot on.
                Yes, I have looked at it again now and it all seems more reasonable now Your advices is invalueable, thanks alot! I did some calculations, pretending I knew what I was doing , and went away ordering the Z59. Depending on the outcome of that test I will move down or up the subclade tree from that point.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I perhaps did a bad thing, I ordered the Z382 too. I guess that was a pointless move if Z59 turns out negatve, but I am to impatient . Well, if Z59 turns out positive I gained some waiting time

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I did order them but FTDNA did suspend the orders, so I guess it will take som more time than planned.

                    At 11th January I was asking FTDNA if it was possible to have all my purshases cancelled (that was before I had any results at all, FF mtDNA or Y-DNA), so I can chose another company and buy their services instead because I am not satisfied with FTDNA.

                    Well, I didn't get any resonse at all. The results was coming in from FF and Y-DNA (still everything isn't done). I kept using FTDNA services and 9th February I bought the SNPs as I said here above.

                    Some days ago I sent a reminder and asked FTDNA again what the status of my request was, and responded by cancelling my SNP purshases I did the 9th of February. I don't understand the staff at FTDNA, they counteract their costumers.

                    They don't even try to do it correct.

                    I have asked them now why my SNP orders were cancelled or suspended, because I have never asked for that. I guess I will have to wait a month or two before I get a response, and I would be very surprised if they even appologies for their action.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      PeterLarsen: "Me doth think you complaineth too much"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by marietta View Post
                        PeterLarsen: "Me doth think you complaineth too much"
                        Well, my english isn't perfect. And it doesn't get better when typing from an IPhone, the editing is pain in the ass.

                        I am not sure why you are making fun of me because of that?

                        This is the message I sent the other day regarding my request I did 11th January:



                        13 feb (3 dagar sedan)

                        till Rebekah, Janine
                        I want a simple yes or no. I am a dissatisfied customer and in my opinion your company does not live up to what it states about privacy rights. I emailed you and your CEO about it and asked for withdrawing my purshases. You had the guts to fully ignore my request and did not respond at all. Not a customer friendly way of handling this issue at all in my opinion.

                        Keep it simple. Can I have my money back? A simple YES or NO will do fine. No need to complicate things.

                        Skickat från min iPhone
                        ... that resulted in my SNP orders getting suspended. Is my english that bad? I havn't mention my SNP orders in my request, and I did order my SNPs a month later than I did my request.
                        Last edited by PeterLarsen; 16th February 2014, 09:05 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Peter,

                          The structure of your haplogroup is still uncertain. The best work is being done by FTDNA customers. So you have done the best thing by testing SNPs with FTDNA. If you end up "wasting" some money on SNP tests, as I have done with an I1 case I manage, try to remember you are an explorer in unmapped territory and an explorer may make some wrong turns.

                          Regards,
                          Jim

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J Honeychuck View Post
                            Peter,

                            The structure of your haplogroup is still uncertain. The best work is being done by FTDNA customers. So you have done the best thing by testing SNPs with FTDNA. If you end up "wasting" some money on SNP tests, as I have done with an I1 case I manage, try to remember you are an explorer in unmapped territory and an explorer may make some wrong turns.

                            Regards,
                            Jim
                            Thanks, yes I really want the SNP orders, I have never asked for them to be cancelled. FTDNA staff did cancel the orders.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is just as well that the orders were cancelled. The Big Y results due any time now may point you in another direction.

                              Comment

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