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Big Y and Haplogroup E-Y5427 Question

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  • Big Y and Haplogroup E-Y5427 Question

    I've just had my Big-Y results and they confirm that I am E-Y5427. I am, however, somewhat confused. This is obviously a subclade of E-M35, but am I right in saying that it's a further subclade E-M34? The FTDNA online results do indicate that it's a subclade of E-M215.

    When I did a basic test with 23and me, this told me I was E-L29. What is the relationship between E-L29 and E-Y5427? I've been online but can't find anything to clarify the issue. What do we know about the origins of E-Y5427?

    I hope I haven't spent all this money for a result that doesn't tell me much more than the basic 23andme test!

    One last point: what further tests can I conduct which will further refine my haplogroup?

    Thanks for your attention.

  • #2
    It has told you much more than the 23andMe test.

    E-Y5427 can be seen here on YFull's tree (7000 YBP), it is downstream of E-M84 also called E-L29.

    I imagine you probably have some private (novel) SNPs that are not yet on the haplotree and over time they will change your terminal haplogroup as more people from the same lineage as you test positive for the same novel SNPs.

    YFull shows your haplogroups subclades are spread from Italy, Balkans, Arabian Peninsula and elsewhere.

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    • #3
      You can see the positions for the subclades you mentioned at ISOGG's Y-DNA Haplogroup E and its Subclades - 2018 page (ISOGG = International Society of Genetic Genealogy). Use the "Find" function in your browser's menu to locate them. On that page, it says that there is a "new, more flexible spreadsheet version" at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pnM/edit#gid=0, but so far I find the former version easier to use than the Google spreadsheet, myself.

      This is how the subclades are related on the above page: the old, "longform" name comes first (made up of alternating alphanumeric characters; the more characters, the further within the subclade). After the longform name, the "short form" names now used are listed after it, on the same line. There are often two or more names for each short name; they are basically equivalent. You can see by the longform name the progression:
      E1b1b = M215/Page40/PF1942 and many more
      next one below M215:
      E1b1b1 = M35.1/PF1944.1
      much further down is
      E1b1b1b2a1a~ = many short form names, including M34/PF2022 (this section shown in gray text as "investigational")
      next one below M34:
      E1b1b1b2a1a1 = CTS4483/L795, L29/Page47, PF6750
      Three steps after that:
      E1b1b1b2a1a1a1~ = Y5427/Z20978 (this section also shown as "investigational")

      Have you joined the E-M35 project? (formerly called the E3b project) They can help you with understanding your subclade, and give advice. My maternal grandfather's line is under M34, estimated by the E-M35 project admins as likely L-791. Unfortunately, my maternal uncle passed away before he could provide a new sample needed to do the Big Y test, so for now I will not be able to get as far as you have, to the terminal subclade.

      As for information about Y5427, there may not be much yet. Again, join the project and see what they can tell you. Eupedia's page for Haplogroup E1b1b does not have information for it, probably because it has been found only recently. Since M34 falls under M123, you can scroll down to that section and at least get some background there. I did not find L29 or its equivalents on the M123 tree chart shown there. Big Y is finding many new little "twigs" on the Y-DNA tree.

      ISOGG has a page that lists the prefix letters and shows who (or what laboratory) named it. Example: the "Y" in Y5427 stands for "Y Full Team (Russian) using data from published and commercial next-generation sequencing samples."

      For your last question, the Big Y is currently the last word in Y-DNA testing. There are no other tests to take to refine your haplogroup. Big Y finds your unique SNPs. You may have a unique SNP that eventually another Big Y tester may match, and then it may form a new subclade. Two or more people with the same unique SNP is required for that.

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      • #4
        Thanks so much for the answers. This makes things much clearer in my mind.

        My Big Y results do give an option to order further SNP results which is what confused me in that respect. I certainly have no regrets now for having ordered the tests.

        I realise that once we start getting into so much detail, you cannot expect some simple 'result' and that it's a part of an on-going investigation. I shall accordingly use the E-M35 phylogeny project, as kindly suggested, to shed further light on my quest

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