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  • FTDNA Chromosome Painter preview

    Though not officially released yet, I heard you can preview the new chromosome painter feature at this link: https://www.familytreedna.com/my/chr...painting/graph

    My preview:
    ftdnachrompaintiloko.jpg
    Last edited by Septem27; 3 July 2021, 08:57 PM.

  • #2
    Thanks for posting this link, Septem27!

    I checked my own account, and found the percentages for the "overarching clusters" (as they are described in the preview) to be about right if I add up the percentages for the population clusters under them. But as seen in your painting, none of the percentages for population cluster appear for either of us, and thus are not shown in this preview in the painted chromosomes. I didn't see any way to display them.

    My "preview" painting only shows my two "overarching clusters" (as described on the "myOrigins Version 3.0 Population Clusters" page); the Chromosome Painting preview calls these "Super Populations." You have four "overarching clusters/Super Populations" so your painting displays a couple of more colors than mine does, in this preview.

    The preview does give a rough idea of what the actual painting might look like, but for an example of how the actual view may appear when released (or similar to it), we can look at Roberta Estes' "Sneak Peek" preview, under the subheading "Chromosome Ethnicity Painting," as I've recently posted elsewhere in the forums. There is an option in this preview to view the chromosomes in Landscape View, as Roberta's painting shows, by using the "Filter" choices.

    Even though I could only see two "Super Populations," I used the link to "Download Segments," which for the Chromosome Painting preview gives the segments size, and its start and end points, for each Super Population. I saw a few that were < 3 cM, even at that broad level. I suppose more such small segments will appear when the population clusters are used.

    The preview tutorial explains how we can choose between "Super Population" or "Continent," but neither of those terms are defined on the page, or even show up (as yet) on the page that the "Quick Reference" directs us to, which is the page at the first link above. I suppose "Continent" is what is now "Continental Regions."

    Fingers crossed that we will see the full and properly working version very soon, though. This preview was tantalizing!
    Last edited by KATM; 3 July 2021, 10:19 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KATM View Post
      Thanks for posting this link, Septem27!

      I checked my own account, and found the percentages for the "overarching clusters" (as they are described in the preview) to be about right if I add up the percentages for the population clusters under them. But as seen in your painting, none of the percentages for population cluster appear for either of us, and thus are not shown in this preview in the painted chromosomes. I didn't see any way to display them.

      My "preview" painting only shows my two "overarching clusters" (as described on the "myOrigins Version 3.0 Population Clusters" page); the Chromosome Painting preview calls these "Super Populations." You have four "overarching clusters/Super Populations" so your painting displays a couple of more colors than mine does, in this preview.

      The preview does give a rough idea of what the actual painting might look like, but for an example of how the actual view may appear when released (or similar to it), we can look at Roberta Estes' "Sneak Peek" preview, under the subheading "Chromosome Ethnicity Painting," as I've recently posted elsewhere in the forums. There is an option in this preview to view the chromosomes in Landscape View, as Roberta's painting shows, by using the "Filter" choices.

      Even though I could only see two "Super Populations," I used the link to "Download Segments," which for the Chromosome Painting preview gives the segments size, and its start and end points, for each Super Population. I saw a few that were < 3 cM, even at that broad level. I suppose more such small segments will appear when the population clusters are used.

      The preview tutorial explains how we can choose between "Super Population" or "Continent," but neither of those terms are defined on the page, or even show up (as yet) on the page that the "Quick Reference" directs us to, which is the page at the first link above. I suppose "Continent" is what is now "Continental Regions."

      Fingers crossed that we will see the full and properly working version very soon, though. This preview was tantalizing!
      I hope it will be more similar to the one in Roberta's blog... giving refined percentages for very specific subregions and not just 'SuperPops'. I'm super excited too for the official release which I assume will be some time this month and much different than this underwhelming preview. And btw I did 23andme too and FTDNA's previewed chromosome painting seemed more fine-tuned than 23andme's and I really like it so far.

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      • #4
        This is really cool! Thanks for sharing the link so we can look at our personal previews! I've been looking forward to this, but now I have a question about the display:

        The painter tool shows two lines of data for each chromosome (FTDNA calls them haplotype 1 and haplotype 2 in the detail report). If the same region on the chromosome indicates different super populations in the two different haplotypes, does that mean that if someone matches me on that portion of the chromosome, that they also share those different super populations with me?

        I hope my question makes sense, but based on my preview, I have at least one instance were I have three different super populations that overlap in the same region of the same chromosome when you look at haplotypes 1 and 2.
        Last edited by Tomero; 4 July 2021, 01:40 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tomero View Post
          This is really cool! Thanks for sharing the link so we can look at our personal previews! I've been looking forward to this, but now I have a question about the display:

          The painter tool shows two lines of data for each chromosome (FTDNA calls them haplotype 1 and haplotype 2 in the detail report). If the same region on the chromosome indicates different super populations in the two different haplotypes, does that mean that if someone matches me on that portion of the chromosome, that they also share those different super populations with me?

          I hope my question makes sense, but based on my preview, I have at least one instance were I have three different super populations that overlap in the same region of the same chromosome when you look at haplotypes 1 and 2.
          From what I remember reading a while back somewhere... each of the two haplotype lines represents your mother and father's contribution to your DNA....and they will only be assigned correctly when your data is phased with a parent. At least that's what I remember the case being for 23andme, though not totally sure about FTDNA's myOrigins. Otherwise I can't fully answer your question.
          Last edited by Septem27; 4 July 2021, 05:53 AM.

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          • #6
            I logged into my account at 23andMe, went to Ancestry Composition, and then looked at the "Frequently Asked Questions" tab on that page. Here is what it said for parental phasing:
            How will my Ancestry Composition change if I connect with a parent?

            When you connect with a biological parent through the Share and Compare tool, your Ancestry Composition will receive the following updates:
            • We will use the additional information we learn from your parents' DNA to improve the resolution of your Ancestry Composition, so you may see slight changes in your Ancestry Composition results.
            • If you connect with one or both of your parents, Ancestry Composition determines which parts of your DNA you inherited from each parent. Your Chromosome Painting will update so that the top chromosome in each pair is the one you inherited from your mother, and the bottom chromosome is the one you inherited from your father.
            • If you connect with one or both of your parents, the Parental Inheritance section in your Ancestry Composition report will become active. You will be able to see the proportions of each ancestry that you inherited from each parent.
            • Note: Connecting with a child does not change the Ancestry Composition results for parents.
            To learn more about how your Ancestry Composition changes when you connect with a parent, read our article on The Phasing Process.
            So, assigning one of the two copies of a given chromosome to a parent (the second is then assigned by default) CAN be done. I don't think I've seen it mentioned about the coming FTDNA Chromosome Painting, but since FTDNA can sort our autosomal matches into paternal and maternal groups (phasing), we can hope that like 23andMe, they will be able to eventually phase our myOrigins, and then our Chromosome Painting.

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            • #7
              Septem27 and KATM,

              Thanks for responding to my inquiry. You confirmed what I suspected: That each of the chromosome copies on Painter (haplotypes) represents each parent's contribution to your DNA.

              Unfortunately, I can't phase with a parent, since they have both long passed away; but it is still all very interesting to see these genetic combinations.

              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting feature, but when I compare myself with my parents, I get some funny results. I'm 97% Finnish and 2.9% West Europe (England, Wales, Scotland) according to Chromosome painting. My Father is 100% Finnish and my mother is 99% Finnish and <1% Western Europe. I have several Western Europe segments which my parents don't have. I guess it is a result of some kind of recombination, but it looks weird.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by vmkiili View Post
                  Interesting feature, but when I compare myself with my parents, I get some funny results. I'm 97% Finnish and 2.9% West Europe (England, Wales, Scotland) according to Chromosome painting. My Father is 100% Finnish and my mother is 99% Finnish and <1% Western Europe. I have several Western Europe segments which my parents don't have. I guess it is a result of some kind of recombination, but it looks weird.
                  Btw my FTDNA previewed chrom painting was more intricate and segmented than what 23andme gave me which was interesting... can't wait for the actual final released version this month!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The situation reported by vmkiili. where a child turns up with "ethnic" components not found in either parent, is an example of the "admixture" algorithm misbehaving. Ancestry.com issued a "white paper" about their efforts to improve their own algorithm a few years ago, reporting that they had made changes that reduced this undesirable result. The cause is not recombination, but rather the inherent uncertainties or ambiguities about estimating "ethnic" origins from SNP data.

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                    • #11
                      Wonder when Chromo Painter is coming? They also removed access to the sample preview. Ftdna have a perfect record so far of not releasing anything as planned. I assume September / Oct but hell it might be tomorrow or Christmas?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gwailo View Post
                        Wonder when Chromo Painter is coming? They also removed access to the sample preview. Ftdna have a perfect record so far of not releasing anything as planned. I assume September / Oct but hell it might be tomorrow or Christmas?
                        On July 1st they sent an email which (among other things) stated:

                        "Later in July, we’ll be releasing the new Chromosome Painter feature for Family Finder!"

                        But then again, that email made other claims like:

                        "We’ve improved match load times"

                        Does anyone agree with that? It seems to be slower now than it ever was!

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                        • #13
                          Hello - I copied/pasted the link you provided and was just taken to the FTDNA Autosomal DNA page, no sign of a chromosome painter. I thought maybe you had abbreviated "chromosome" to "chr..." in the link you shared, but neither using that abbreviation nor "chromomepainting/graph' worked. Not sure what I' doing wrong.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ledvenport View Post
                            Hello - I copied/pasted the link you provided and was just taken to the FTDNA Autosomal DNA page, no sign of a chromosome painter. I thought maybe you had abbreviated "chromosome" to "chr..." in the link you shared, but neither using that abbreviation nor "chromomepainting/graph' worked. Not sure what I' doing wrong.
                            As Gwallo posted above, the link doesn't work any more. It's been four weeks since the first post, and the sample preview page is no longer accessible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KATM View Post

                              As Gwallo posted above, the link doesn't work any more. It's been four weeks since the first post, and the sample preview page is no longer accessible.
                              Thanks, KATM -- I missed that info from Gwallo. I wish that FTDNA were a little speedier. I first tested with them in about 2002 (the now somewhat super-basic seeming "DNA Print" test), and although they are a great company, they are not the speediest. I also don't understand why they would make the beta-type chromosome painter available briefly for some FTDNA members to try, and others, like me, to happen upon too late to try it.

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