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GEDmatch Eurogenes K12 and North Amerindian

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  • GEDmatch Eurogenes K12 and North Amerindian

    So GEDmatch has shown definite "North Amerindian" for a part of 15th Chromosome.

    I've also checked some other calculators about that part and the World22 one was very uncertain and not really showing anything but a small mixture of several American and North European breeds. Other global calculators were also showing American or Asian at the mentioned part.

    Does it mean that I have a certain Native American ancestor? If so, my bet would be on Greenland, because it was not that isolated from Europe in Middle Ages, and there were Vikings and there was slave trading...

    EDIT: I'm talking about the "Chromosome Painting". Can anyone with north European origins check theirs at 15th chromosome around "30M"? Maybe it is common?

  • #2
    What we would really like to know is exactly what SNP at that location is supposed to be indicative of Native American ancestry, and what its actual frequency is in various populations. More generally, where does information of this type used in admixture algorithms come from? Is it based on measurements of SNP frequencies (population genetics studies), or is it inferred by statistical analysis of "reference groups" generated through principal components analysis or some similar multivariate statistical analysis?


    • #3
      Geturðu að tala ensku? Can you speak English?

      I just checked the "Chromosome Painting" and it marked the part as almost obvious "Native American" (something like 98% Native American, 1% Scandinavian 1% British)


      • #4
        I believe he did speak English to you...

        I wouldn't think too much of this Amerindian component. It is likely not accurate.


        • #5
          but how can it be inaccurate? If I understand correctly, from the tested population, it was found mostly amongst Native Americans, right?

          And also, it is not just one test suggesting that. Another one suggests either "Native American" or "South Asia". So I'm more likely to believe I'm American, than Asian...


          • #6
            The issue I am raising is that most of us, at least, have no way of knowing how accurate chromosome painting is. We don't know what SNP's have been selected as "informative" of ethnic origins, nor how predictive they actually are. Even if particular SNP's have been found, by someone, to be more frequent in a particular "reference group", we don't know what the sample size was, nor what the frequency of any of the selected SNP's is in other "reference groups" or in diverse human populations generally. We have no basis to evaluate the methodology.

            There have been many different attempts at "admixture algorithms", yielding extremely diverse results, and I think it is reasonable to expect that results for individual chromosome segments, which must be based on a small subset of SNP's, will, on average, show even more variation across different versions of the algorithms. I am arguing for more transparency, more data, and especially, some independent attempts to assess the performance of the admixture algorithms, including chromosome painting. Some time ago, Ancestry issued a "white paper" discussing the development of their own admixture algorithm, including some approaches to validation -- a good first step, but not followed up, as far as I know, with hard data.


            • #7
              Well, Native American DNA is always doubtful, though seems like it was more than just 1 test from more than just 1 projects that suggested Native American. Can't they be conspiring?


              • #8
                Does it mean that I have a certain Native American ancestor?
                No. It shows up in people (like me) with Sami and/or Finnish ancestors
                Last edited by Ivar Kristensen; 7 June 2018, 03:02 PM.


                • #9
                  Well, I am more likely to have Greenlandic ancestors than Suomi, so...

                  Well, must say that I have the north Norwegian/Swedish kind of appearance, so maybe some Suomi ancestry too


                  • #10
                    you're icelandic, right?


                    • #11
                      yes, why?

                      PHP Code:
                      Oh sorry admins for too short message 


                      • #12
                        Mitochondrial DNA variation in the Viking age population of Norway http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.o.../1660/20130384

                        Two female skeletons, from Nordland and Nord–Trøndelag, respectively, carried rare haplotypes, namely 16 144C–16 148T–16 189C–16 270T–16 335G (Hg U5b1b1) and 16 188T–16 189C–16 223T–16 290T–16 319A–16 356C–16 362C (possibly Hg A4b). The polymorphisms detected in the former are sometimes referred to as the ‘Saami motif’, so far only described in Saami [48], whereas the latter sequence is a Central Asian lineage present in Europe at a frequency of less than 0.2% [7,49].
                        Another individual, an adult female discovered in 1942 in Vevelstad, Helgeland, Nordland (A4448), had a sequence characteristic of Hg U5b1b1, sometimes referred to as the ‘Saami motif’ (16 144C–16 148T–16 189C–16 270T–16 335G) [48]. The skeleton was classified as Norse based on the associated archaeological findings, namely a burial mound and an axe. The skeleton could represent a secondary burial in the barrow. Mound and cairn burials with grave goods, often including weapons, were characteristic of the Norse tradition, whereas Saami burials were typically cremations or scree burials with birch-bark shrouds and faunal remains [61]. This find exemplifies some of the problems encountered when working on museum collections with poor documentation or archaeological context, which may lead to interpretation errors. In this case, the individual may have been from a secondary Saami burial in a Norse mound, a sacrificial victim or an individual of Saami origin buried according to Norse custom. The latter scenario is plausible, because Norse and Saami coexisted for centuries, and archaeological and historical evidence suggests that intermarriage was a common practice, especially among the elite [61].
                        Last edited by Ivar Kristensen; 7 June 2018, 08:16 PM.


                        • #13
                          what about C1e? I've heard it has been found in many Vikings?


                          • #14
                            A new subclade of mtDNA haplogroup C1 found in Icelanders: evidence of pre-Columbian contact?

                            Most surprisingly, we demonstrate that the Icelandic C1 lineage does not belong to any of the four known Native American (C1b, C1c, and C1d) or Asian (C1a) subclades of haplogroup C1. Rather, it is presently the only known member of a new subclade, C1e. While a Native American origin seems most likely for C1e, an Asian or European origin cannot be ruled out.


                            • #15
                              There was also a theory that Neanderthals and african humans were related and had a common foremother, therefore the difference between Neanderthal and African mtDNA would not be that big.

                              Would then make sense for such rare haplogroups as C1e to appear in Europe