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How old is the ethnic autosoma shown in the test?

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  • How old is the ethnic autosoma shown in the test?

    My father is half Iberian and we don't know why.

    For being half Iberian I suppose there must be a close Iberian ancestor too. How many generation ago can this have happened? (the connection with an Iberian)

    Thank you
    Last edited by keyhook; 7th January 2018, 03:51 PM. Reason: wrong place for the former post

  • #2
    Originally posted by keyhook View Post
    My father is half Iberian and we don't know why.

    For being half Iberian I suppose there must be a close Iberian ancestor too. How many generation ago can this have happened? (the connection with an Iberian)

    Thank you
    What do you and your father know of his parents, and their ancestors?

    50% Iberian could be all from one of his parents, or some mix from both of his parents to equal 50%. This means that one parent had all Iberian (Spanish, Portuguese) ancestors, or that both had some Iberian ancestors within the last few generations.

    Overall, autosomal will usually go back between 4 to 6 generations, although occasionally further back. See a recent discussion about this topic.

    Maybe someone else with more knowledge will chime in if Iberian can be mistaken for other population groups.
    Last edited by KATM; 7th January 2018, 04:22 PM.

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    • #3
      How much Iberian do you think he should have, based on your knowledge of his ancestry? Go through his matches and see if a lot of them have Spanish and Portuguese names in their surname lists.

      Has he done a Y-DNA test?

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      • #4
        He should have 0% based on my knowlege of two hunder years of family tree. He is 42% and I am 19% (I'm his son).

        He has just been tested for Y 111 and will have the response in one month.

        Do you think Y dna can be useful to identify the reason we are Iberian?

        Thank you


        Originally posted by MoberlyDrake View Post
        How much Iberian do you think he should have, based on your knowledge of his ancestry? Go through his matches and see if a lot of them have Spanish and Portuguese names in their surname lists.

        Has he done a Y-DNA test?

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        • #5
          I don't have any faith in the ethnicity part of DNA testing at all. It's the list of matches that's important. I've tested myself and both parents and the amount of DNA I share with each of them proves they are my parents, but my mother got less than 2% Sephardic, my father got zero percent and I got 14%. Does that add up? I have Sephardic ancestors, but my parents don't?

          If you are a male, or if you can test your father, or anyone in the direct male line, you might learn from the matches you get whether there has been an illegitimacy, adoption, or surname change in that line. But that's one line only. Of course, if your father's mother has a brother, you could test that male line too. I'd recommend getting at least 37 marker tests, 67 is better.

          But all that is expensive, and unless you are really interested for some reason, I wouldn't worry about it. Do any of your relatives on your father's side look Iberian?

          But first, I would start going through my matches, clicking on the surname lists and reading through them. If I saw a number of Iberian names in the list of relatively close matches, I'd probably start keeping a spreadsheet of the DNA segments these people shared with me and if it was clear that certain segments were Iberian, I'd start doing Family Finder tests on various cousins in order to find out where the Iberian came from (unless it was clear from the spreadsheet work).

          But what you do depends on how important it is to you.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by keyhook View Post
            My father is half Iberian and we don't know why.

            For being half Iberian I suppose there must be a close Iberian ancestor too. How many generation ago can this have happened? (the connection with an Iberian)

            Thank you
            When you upload his kit to Gedmatch and run Eurogenes K13 then click on Oracle-4 what is full printout. Be aware that the kit number is in the printout so delete the kit number before posting if you want to keep it private.

            Comment


            • #7
              Eurogenes K13 - Oracle

              done!

              This is the response. I don't know what Eurogenes K13 test exactly is but I see a lot of Iberic (Spain) again.

              Image Attached :-)


              Originally posted by Armando View Post
              When you upload his kit to Gedmatch and run Eurogenes K13 then click on Oracle-4 what is full printout. Be aware that the kit number is in the printout so delete the kit number before posting if you want to keep it private.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                To me, it looks like your father really does have a lot of Iberian. If you had to guess, based on your own knowledge of your father's ancestry, what would you come up with?

                For instance FTDNA says my mother is
                British Isles 54%
                West and Central Europe 17%
                East Europe 13%
                Southeast Europe 8%
                Scandinavia 6%

                But based on my own careful genealogical research, I would say she was about 20% British Isles, about 75% French and German, and the other 5% Netherlands and maybe Scandinavia.

                Was Spain or Portugal ever in control of the area where your father's ancestors lived? Or was there an influx of Spanish immigration at some point?

                Half of my father's ancestors came from Sicily and half from the town of Cappelle sul Tavo. I have never been able to trace his ancestors in Cappelle sul Tavo beyond his grandparents. But I read in an online article that in the 17th century there was a shortage of laborers in Cappelle sul Tavo and people were brought in from Jugoslavia. And, from the names and locations of some of my father's DNA matches, I can tell that he has Jugoslavian (probably Croatian) ancestry from intermarriages between the immigrant laborers and the natives.

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                • #9
                  My father is Italian from Lombardy. Lombardy was under the Spanish domination in the XVI-XVIIcenturies and probably lot of locals were mixed with Spaniards at that time. But I still wonder how it can be, because also his FTDNA matches are Spaniards. I have my family tree done from 1810 and there are no spaniards in it, apparently. It is unbelievable but the only posible connection with surnames of the matche can have happened in the XVI century only.


                  Originally posted by MoberlyDrake View Post
                  To me, it looks like your father really does have a lot of Iberian. If you had to guess, based on your own knowledge of your father's ancestry, what would you come up with?

                  For instance FTDNA says my mother is
                  British Isles 54%
                  West and Central Europe 17%
                  East Europe 13%
                  Southeast Europe 8%
                  Scandinavia 6%

                  But based on my own careful genealogical research, I would say she was about 20% British Isles, about 75% French and German, and the other 5% Netherlands and maybe Scandinavia.

                  Was Spain or Portugal ever in control of the area where your father's ancestors lived? Or was there an influx of Spanish immigration at some point?

                  Half of my father's ancestors came from Sicily and half from the town of Cappelle sul Tavo. I have never been able to trace his ancestors in Cappelle sul Tavo beyond his grandparents. But I read in an online article that in the 17th century there was a shortage of laborers in Cappelle sul Tavo and people were brought in from Jugoslavia. And, from the names and locations of some of my father's DNA matches, I can tell that he has Jugoslavian (probably Croatian) ancestry from intermarriages between the immigrant laborers and the natives.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm no expert, but it seems that companies have some difficulty with differentiating Iberians from North Italians. I have mostly North Italian ancestry with some Portuguese, but FTDNA says I'm 56% Iberian. My sister's results came recently and she is even more Iberian than I (65%).
                    Even my grandmother, who had 4 Italian grandparents is said to be 15% "Iberian" by FTDNA.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by keyhook View Post
                      done!

                      This is the response. I don't know what Eurogenes K13 test exactly is but I see a lot of Iberic (Spain) again.

                      Image Attached :-)
                      What does it show for 4 population approximation? The screenshot cuts off at 3 population approximation.

                      Can you do the same thing for Eurogenes K15?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EMC View Post
                        I'm no expert, but it seems that companies have some difficulty with differentiating Iberians from North Italians. I have mostly North Italian ancestry with some Portuguese, but FTDNA says I'm 56% Iberian. My sister's results came recently and she is even more Iberian than I (65%).
                        Even my grandmother, who had 4 Italian grandparents is said to be 15% "Iberian" by FTDNA.
                        Yes, myOrigins 2.0 from FTDNA and AncestryDNA is very bad at it. 23andme was very good at finding Iberian since only people with Iberian and southern French ancestry get a lot more than 10% Iberian but v5 started to have problems but not in differentiating North Italians and Iberians.

                        What do you get when you use click on Oracle-4 after using Eurogenes K13 in Gedmatch?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Armando View Post
                          What do you get when you use click on Oracle-4 after using Eurogenes K13 in Gedmatch?
                          Least-squares method.

                          Using 1 population approximation:
                          1 North_Italian @ 4.605702
                          2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 7.962460
                          3 Portuguese @ 8.319963
                          4 Spanish_Murcia @ 8.703778
                          5 Spanish_Andalucia @ 9.178503
                          6 Spanish_Valencia @ 9.593583
                          7 Tuscan @ 9.602188
                          8 Spanish_Galicia @ 10.235339
                          9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 10.536324
                          10 Spanish_Cataluna @ 10.787756
                          11 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 11.171906
                          12 Spanish_Cantabria @ 13.696778
                          13 Spanish_Aragon @ 13.996493
                          14 Southwest_French @ 15.969608
                          15 French @ 16.110241
                          16 West_Sicilian @ 17.219612
                          17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 18.150126
                          18 Greek_Thessaly @ 19.379080
                          19 Romanian @ 20.823605
                          20 Bulgarian @ 21.716019

                          Using 2 populations approximation:
                          1 50% Spanish_Murcia +50% Tuscan @ 1.731489


                          Using 3 populations approximation:
                          1 50% Spanish_Murcia +25% Tuscan +25% Tuscan @ 1.731489


                          Using 4 populations approximation:
                          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++
                          1 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.691815
                          2 Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Murcia + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 1.731489
                          3 Portuguese + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.765419
                          4 Italian_Jewish + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.831779
                          5 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.836711
                          6 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.847616
                          7 Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.856600
                          8 Italian_Jewish + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.864099
                          9 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.866467
                          10 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.869792
                          11 Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.875471
                          12 Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.881135
                          13 Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.886332
                          14 Ashkenazi + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.894234
                          15 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.903539
                          16 Italian_Jewish + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.906806
                          17 Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.913936
                          18 Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.916138
                          19 Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Valencia + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 1.921120
                          20 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.934258

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