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Finland and Northern Siberia? Finnish 4th cousin?

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  • Finland and Northern Siberia? Finnish 4th cousin?

    My mom transferred her data from ancestry, and in MyOrigins, she got 7% Finnish. This was a surprise as we have no known Finnish heritage. We have family from New Sweden (10th great grandparents so REALLY far back). She has a 4th cousin who got 90 something % Finnish DNA and whose ancestors only come from North and Central Finland. She also has a bunch of (smaller) Swedish and Finnish matches on this segment on GEDMatch. Does this mean she has genuine Finnish heritage, with the MyOrigins and matches?

  • #2
    I've got Finnish/Northwest Russia at Ancestry, but just Scandinavia here at FTDNA. My first known ancestor who settled in New Sweden was a Finn. Anders the Finn arrived in 1643. There were lots of Finns who settled in at New Sweden.

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    • #3
      I thought that at first but my mom's Swedish ancestors had Swedish names and were from Stockholm.

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      • #4
        Neighbouring peoples always intermix at some degree. Many Finns have some Swedish roots and many Swedes have some Finnish roots.

        I myself am a "pure" Finn with no known Swedish ancestors, but I have loads of Swedish FF-matches and myOrigins gives me 5% Scandinavian. I actually must have Scandinavian ancestors, because both my Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups have spread to Finland from Scandinavia (probably via Sweden).

        I also have many distant American FF-matches who apparently are related via the New Sweden colony inhabitants. At least it seems to be the best guess in their cases. They are different stock from those American FF-matches of mine who descend from Finns who immigrated to USA in 19th century or later.

        jbower, I would say that if the segment is of decent size, your mom probably has genuine Finnish heritage, but it could be quite distant, and maybe can only show itself as an Finnish FF-match with secondary support of some Swedish "background level".

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        • #5
          How many european and non-european has given your score?
          Can you share your My origins results?
          Thanks!


          Originally posted by 192971 View Post
          Neighbouring peoples always intermix at some degree. Many Finns have some Swedish roots and many Swedes have some Finnish roots.

          I myself am a "pure" Finn with no known Swedish ancestors, but I have loads of Swedish FF-matches and myOrigins gives me 5% Scandinavian. I actually must have Scandinavian ancestors, because both my Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups have spread to Finland from Scandinavia (probably via Sweden).

          I also have many distant American FF-matches who apparently are related via the New Sweden colony inhabitants. At least it seems to be the best guess in their cases. They are different stock from those American FF-matches of mine who descend from Finns who immigrated to USA in 19th century or later.

          jbower, I would say that if the segment is of decent size, your mom probably has genuine Finnish heritage, but it could be quite distant, and maybe can only show itself as an Finnish FF-match with secondary support of some Swedish "background level".

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          • #6
            Sami People

            Ah, I think that "Finnish and northern Siberia" actually mainly means the Sami people which is the indiginous people in the whole of Scandinavia and northern Siberia. Almost all Swedes have a certain proportion of this heritage. So if you have ancestors from Scandinavia you are supposed to have some percentage of "Finnish ..." since the sami people and other Scandinavians intermixed so much.

            So the label is a bit misleading, it is like using the label "US and Canada" for indiginous northern-americans.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by aketilander View Post
              Ah, I think that "Finnish and northern Siberia" actually mainly means the Sami people [...] So the label is a bit misleading
              No. That category is based only on ethnic Finnish reference samples.

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              • #8
                I'm 36% Scandinavian and 0% Finnish according to my results... But I only have a few Swedish and Norwegian matches and quite a few from Finland.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by aketilander View Post
                  Ah, I think that "Finnish and northern Siberia" actually mainly means the Sami people which is the indiginous people in the whole of Scandinavia and northern Siberia. Almost all Swedes have a certain proportion of this heritage. So if you have ancestors from Scandinavia you are supposed to have some percentage of "Finnish ..." since the sami people and other Scandinavians intermixed so much.

                  So the label is a bit misleading, it is like using the label "US and Canada" for indiginous northern-americans.
                  'Uralic' would be a more inclusive term

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                    'Uralic' would be a more inclusive term
                    At Eurogenes Finns are close to Russians but not Siberians

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by khazaria View Post
                      No. That category is based only on ethnic Finnish reference samples.
                      I think it might be set to pick up a bit more than that. The Geno 2.0 NG map for the category shades from Latvia into Finland and then across all of Northern Russia way across to the East. From what I see the Geno 2.0 NG maps for the categories show much better where the components to be found and what they pick up.

                      "Finland and Northern Siberia:
                      This component of your ancestry is associated with the polar regions of Eurasia, stretching from Finland to eastern Siberia in Russia. Similar to other northern regions, this region of Eurasia was settled late and primarily by hunter-gatherers who could survive on the edges of the receding icesheets, and did not take on agriculture until very recently. Although this area may appear distant on a map, members of this population eventually expanded as far east as Alaska, Canada, and North America, and their genetic legacy is still seen in Inuit populations as far east as Canada and Greenland, but also Sami populations as far west as Finland and Sweden. Your ancestors were true circumpolar settlers."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wombat View Post
                        "Finland and Northern Siberia:
                        This component of your ancestry is associated with the polar regions of Eurasia, stretching from Finland to eastern Siberia in Russia. Similar to other northern regions, this region of Eurasia was settled late and primarily by hunter-gatherers who could survive on the edges of the receding icesheets, and did not take on agriculture until very recently. Although this area may appear distant on a map, members of this population eventually expanded as far east as Alaska, Canada, and North America, and their genetic legacy is still seen in Inuit populations as far east as Canada and Greenland, but also Sami populations as far west as Finland and Sweden. Your ancestors were true circumpolar settlers."
                        That is, if we are talking about Scandinavia, this is the Sami people, which is the indiginous people of Scandinavia. They came to the Scandinavian peninsula from the North and is a distinct ethnical Group from the Scandinavias which came from the South. The ethnical Groups have intermixed through the history, so if you have a Scandinavian ancestry you usually also have some % "Finland and northern Siberia" So you see it is a bit similar to the situation in US with the indiginous Americans.

                        The sami people belong to a wider circumpolar ethnical Group as described above.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by aketilander View Post
                          That is, if we are talking about Scandinavia, this is the Sami people, which is the indiginous people of Scandinavia. They came to the Scandinavian peninsula from the North and is a distinct ethnical Group from the Scandinavias which came from the South. The ethnical Groups have intermixed through the history, so if you have a Scandinavian ancestry you usually also have some % "Finland and northern Siberia" So you see it is a bit similar to the situation in US with the indiginous Americans.

                          The sami people belong to a wider circumpolar ethnical Group as described above.

                          The Geno statement is somewhat misleading. Finns and Samis show a small Siberian component. However they are somewhat Uralic in origin with european contribution greater than the Siberian contribution. Both Samis and Finns speak a Finno-Urgic (Uralic) language. The languages are similar but not identical. Finns probably had more impact on Scandinavia than did Samis
                          Last edited by josh w.; 2 March 2017, 11:11 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                            The Geno statement is somewhat misleading. Finns and Samis show a small Siberian component. However they are somewhat Uralic in origin with european contribution greater than the Siberian contribution. Both Samis and Finns speak a Finno-Urgic (Uralic) language. The languages are similar but not identical. Finns probably had more impact on Scandinavia than did Samis
                            To clarify, Finns were a Baltic group while Samis lived north of the Baltic. If Finns were to be lumped with another group it would be European Russians rather than Siberians.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                              To clarify, Finns were a Baltic group while Samis lived north of the Baltic. If Finns were to be lumped with another group it would be European Russians rather than Siberians.
                              A Gedmatch, Sami have a larger Siberian component than do Finns. However Sami are still closer to European Russians than they are to Siberians

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