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  • josh w.
    replied
    Originally posted by CuriousAdoptee View Post
    Well, the fact that my ethnicity shows only a very small percentage of Ashkenazi matches the paper trail. The only sign I have any Jewish heritage is all the matches on FTDNA and also 23 & Me.

    On Ancestry, two of my mom's 1st cousins have tested now, one has a small trace of European Jewish and the other doesn't have any.

    My 2nd cousins on my dad's side through the same line have the same - small trace of 1-2% European Jewish.

    Seems like I got a small trace from both my biological parents.



    When I do common matches, most of them all match each other. Chromosome browser shows they match on specific genes. I have about 6 segments that are Ashkenazi and 99% of my matches on FTDNA are on those genes.

    My top surnames of matches are Kaplan, Rosenberg and Cohen. I also have a lot of matches with Russian names. Names aren't always a sign, but most of my non-Ashkenazi have names that would be common in Kentucky and Tennessee.
    Do you mean that you know that your segments are Ashkenazi because Ashkenazis match on these segments. You would need something like Gedmatch's chromosome painting to suggest the origin of the segments.

    Leave a comment:


  • CuriousAdoptee
    replied
    Originally posted by dna View Post
    Paper trail not matching DNA is a quite plausible explanation.

    Since all who might have known are quite likely not among us, your research needs to widen and deepen.

    Mr W
    Well, the fact that my ethnicity shows only a very small percentage of Ashkenazi matches the paper trail. The only sign I have any Jewish heritage is all the matches on FTDNA and also 23 & Me.

    On Ancestry, two of my mom's 1st cousins have tested now, one has a small trace of European Jewish and the other doesn't have any.

    My 2nd cousins on my dad's side through the same line have the same - small trace of 1-2% European Jewish.

    Seems like I got a small trace from both my biological parents.

    Originally posted by John McCoy View Post
    How do you know that 99% of your matches are Ashkenazi? Where do you see that information? I ought to have a few Ashkenazi matches, but I don't see any way of identifying them.
    When I do common matches, most of them all match each other. Chromosome browser shows they match on specific genes. I have about 6 segments that are Ashkenazi and 99% of my matches on FTDNA are on those genes.

    My top surnames of matches are Kaplan, Rosenberg and Cohen. I also have a lot of matches with Russian names. Names aren't always a sign, but most of my non-Ashkenazi have names that would be common in Kentucky and Tennessee.
    Last edited by CuriousAdoptee; 19 July 2016, 09:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dna
    replied
    Originally posted by CuriousAdoptee View Post
    I'm 0% Ashkenazi, no known Jewish ancestors with family tree going back to 1700 on every line, many lines back to the 1500s and very Catholic. Two of my four grandparents are 100% German.

    99% of my matches are Ashkenazi. Many 3rd to 5th cousins who are currently living in Eastern Europe, Russia or Israel. It really makes no sense.
    Paper trail not matching DNA is a quite plausible explanation.

    Since all who might have known are quite likely not among us, your research needs to widen and deepen.

    Mr W

    Leave a comment:


  • John McCoy
    replied
    How do you know that 99% of your matches are Ashkenazi? Where do you see that information? I ought to have a few Ashkenazi matches, but I don't see any way of identifying them.

    Leave a comment:


  • CuriousAdoptee
    replied
    I'm 0% Ashkenazi, no known Jewish ancestors with family tree going back to 1700 on every line, many lines back to the 1500s and very Catholic. Two of my four grandparents are 100% German.

    99% of my matches are Ashkenazi. Many 3rd to 5th cousins who are currently living in Eastern Europe, Russia or Israel. It really makes no sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • zilch
    replied
    Do you know anything about the variance of the data from these tables? It seems that my results differ from the averages when it comes to the Asian/Medditeranean part, but I do not know how significant this is. My mtDNA haplogroup is pretty rare too, as it is U2.

    The non-european, non-trace data:

    EUtest averages for PL:
    WEST_MED EAST_MED WEST_ASIAN
    6.62 4.42 3.74

    My results:
    WEST_MED EAST_MED WEST_ASIAN
    9.32 9.37 6.58

    Jtest averages for PL:
    WEST_MED ASHKENAZI EAST_MED WEST_ASIAN
    6.15 3.11 3.33 3.20

    My results:
    WEST_MED ASHKENAZI EAST_MED WEST_ASIAN
    8.68 4.51 7.67 5.76

    I'll ask my parents to test their aDNA.

    Leave a comment:


  • josh w.
    replied
    Originally posted by zilch View Post
    I've noticed that there is a significant spike in EAST_MED when I compare the results of Jtest and EUtest. I understand that this means that the (false, I assume) 4.5% Ashkenazi originate from EAST_MED. Is this consistent with a possible Italian or Bulgarian ancestor?

    I asked a bit more about the family history. France, Hungary and Germany came up when it concerns great granparents, but no Italians and Bulgarians at all.

    I'm a bit puzzled. Do you think that testing aDNA of my mother might be worth a try?
    The spreadsheet at Eurogenes shows the average levels of East Med for various populations. Known family history is seldom complete if one goes back a few generations.

    Testing any close ancestor would be helpful

    Leave a comment:


  • zilch
    replied
    I've noticed that there is a significant spike in EAST_MED when I compare the results of Jtest and EUtest. I understand that this means that the (false, I assume) 4.5% Ashkenazi originate from EAST_MED. Is this consistent with a possible Italian or Bulgarian ancestor?

    I asked a bit more about the family history. France, Hungary and Germany came up when it concerns great granparents, but no Italians and Bulgarians at all.

    I'm a bit puzzled. Do you think that testing aDNA of my mother might be worth a try?

    Leave a comment:


  • dna
    replied
    Originally posted by josh w. View Post
    While there was more conversion to Christianity, there was some conversion to Judaism. See the story of Franz Kafka's family.
    Also there were (rare) events, when a Jewish male had a child with a non-Jewish female out of wedlock.

    Mr W

    Leave a comment:


  • josh w.
    replied
    Originally posted by josh w. View Post
    A good chance. There is no telling when such an event might have happened. Alternatively, an ancestor might have converted to Judaism.
    While there was more conversion to Christianty, there was some conversion to Judaism. See the story of Franz Kafka's family.

    Leave a comment:


  • josh w.
    replied
    Originally posted by zilch View Post
    I have another question, motivated by curiosity this time. I plan to go through genealogical archives to find out the details about my family. If I find a Jewish great grandmother or grandfather, then in the view of the above does this mean that (with a high probability) there was an infidelity/adoption/etc, so that there are no obvious Jewish lines in DNA?
    A good chance. There is no telling when such an event might have happened. Alternatively, an ancestor might have converted to Judaism.

    Leave a comment:


  • zilch
    replied
    I have another question, motivated by curiosity this time. I plan to go through genealogical archives to find out the details about my family. If I find a Jewish great grandmother or grandfather, then in the view of the above does this mean that (with a high probability) there was an infidelity/adoption/etc, so that there are no obvious Jewish lines in DNA?

    Leave a comment:


  • zilch
    replied
    Thanks all. A part of my family immigrated from Germany to Poland (or at least they spoke German). I was sceptical about the Jewish connection, but Bulgarian and Italian one is way more surprising.

    Leave a comment:


  • josh w.
    replied
    Originally posted by josh w. View Post
    I would trust K13 over the Jtest. The Bulgarian component might explain Near Eastern ancestry. Bulgarians show a fair amount of Near Eastern lines given their closeness to West Asia. Don't know about Tuscan lines. Might just be an Italian ancestor. Croatia borders on northeastern Italy but it is some distance from Tuscany. Hungary does not rank high on K13 and most Hungarians are of Slavic rather than Asian ancestry. Don't see any Jewish lines. It is possible that a sibling of your direct line married someone who was Jewish.
    The Polish Lithuanian Empire included the western Ukraine. Croatia was once part of the Roman Empire.
    Last edited by josh w.; 5 July 2016, 12:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • josh w.
    replied
    Originally posted by zilch View Post
    I'll paste the results below (sorry for the long post). This does seem east-central european, doesn't it? The unexpected (for me) are Hungarian and Tuscan.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Jtest:

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 HU @ 7.604078
    2 UA @ 8.188671
    3 PL @ 8.511791
    4 Ukrainian-Russian @ 10.476881
    5 West_Russian @ 11.224946
    6 AT @ 12.496910
    7 Belorussian @ 12.895081
    8 Serbian @ 13.141764
    9 RO @ 15.640847
    10 Northwest_Russian @ 15.803803
    11 EE @ 15.888524
    12 East_Russian @ 16.906557
    13 South_Finnish @ 16.923462
    14 LIT @ 17.618767
    15 East_Finnish @ 18.403797
    16 North_Russian @ 19.632767
    17 North_Swedish @ 19.685099
    18 West_&_Central_German @ 19.827477
    19 Erzya @ 20.105635
    20 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 20.448957

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% HU +50% UA @ 3.796730


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Belorussian +25% Tuscan +25% UA @ 3.574615


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 LIT + Tuscan + UA + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.136234
    2 LIT + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.149008
    3 LIT + PL + Tuscan + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.309955
    4 LIT + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.334774
    5 HU + Serbian + UA + UA @ 3.423787
    6 LIT + Tuscan + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.468759
    7 LIT + Tuscan + UA + West_Russian @ 3.483831
    8 Belorussian + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.485073
    9 LIT + Serbian + Serbian + UA @ 3.493384
    10 Northwest_Russian + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.514986
    11 Belorussian + Tuscan + UA + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.554668
    12 Belorussian + Belorussian + Tuscan + UA @ 3.574615
    13 Belorussian + LIT + Tuscan + UA @ 3.608390
    14 Northwest_Russian + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.629602
    15 Belorussian + HU + Serbian + UA @ 3.636568
    16 HU + PL + Serbian + UA @ 3.646230
    17 LIT + RO + Serbian + UA @ 3.666528
    18 LIT + PL + Serbian + Serbian @ 3.677135
    19 Belorussian + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.686220
    20 HU + LIT + Serbian + UA @ 3.693974

    Eurogenes K13:
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Croatian @ 4.043084
    2 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.523828
    3 Ukrainian @ 6.229197
    4 South_Polish @ 6.530441
    5 Moldavian @ 7.250468
    6 Polish @ 9.952879
    7 Hungarian @ 10.090275
    8 Southwest_Russian @ 10.164089
    9 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 10.533680
    10 Russian_Smolensk @ 11.962487
    11 Estonian_Polish @ 12.586098
    12 Belorussian @ 13.403899
    13 East_German @ 13.576499
    14 Serbian @ 14.427799
    15 Austrian @ 14.637473
    16 Kargopol_Russian @ 15.162560
    17 Erzya @ 17.279808
    18 Southwest_Finnish @ 18.062183
    19 Estonian @ 18.075253
    20 Lithuanian @ 18.151476

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Moldavian +50% Ukrainian @ 2.467287


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Croatian +25% Croatian +25% Southwest_Russian @ 2.076474


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian @ 1.806712
    2 Bulgarian + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 1.931744
    3 Bulgarian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.014907
    4 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + South_Polish @ 2.045704
    5 Croatian + Croatian + Croatian + Southwest_Russian @ 2.076474
    6 Bulgarian + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.097588
    7 Croatian + Lithuanian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 2.110028
    8 Croatian + Croatian + Croatian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.118343
    9 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Moldavian + Polish @ 2.121009
    10 Lithuanian + Moldavian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 2.124832
    11 Romanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.131657
    12 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.133527
    13 Greek_Thessaly + Lithuanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.173958
    14 Greek_Thessaly + Lithuanian + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 2.185484
    15 Bulgarian + Russian_Smolensk + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 2.187053
    16 Bulgarian + South_Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.187255
    17 Bulgarian + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.188543
    18 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Moldavian + Ukrainian @ 2.205579
    19 Croatian + Croatian + Estonian_Polish + Moldavian @ 2.263096
    20 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Polish @ 2.267665

    I would trust K13 over the Jtest. The Bulgarian component might explain Near Eastern ancestry. Bulgarians show a fair amount of Near Eastern lines given their closeness to West Asia. Don't know about Tuscan lines. Might just be an Italian ancestor. Croatia borders on northeastern Italy but it is some distance from Tuscany. Hungary does not rank high on K13 and most Hungarians are of Slavic rather than Asian ancestry. Don't see any Jewish lines. It is possible that a sibling of your direct line married someone who was Jewish.

    Leave a comment:

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