No Jewish matches

[zilch]

I (probably) understand. I chose a person, then found that we have a match:

Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
18 71,440,824 75,539,676 11.3 1,476


And I checked that this part of the chromosome is painted as West Asian. This is actually pretty interesting, thanks!

[josh w.]

I (probably) understand. I chose a person, then found that we have a match:

Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
18 71,440,824 75,539,676 11.3 1,476


And I checked that this part of the chromosome is painted as West Asian. This is actually pretty interesting, thanks!

Note that West Asian may or may not imply Jewish lines. Have you tried Eurogenes at Gedmatch. I have found MDLP to be most useful for eastern Europe with Eurogenes more relevant for Jewish lines.

[JeffWexler]

Because the Ashkenazi Jewish population is endogamous, someone with a single Jewish great grandparent will typically have a disproportionate number of Jewish matches -- perhaps hundreds of them. (Because of the random nature of autosomal DNA inheritance, it is possible, however, that such a person may have inherited relatively few 7 cM+ segments from his or her Ashkenazi ancestor, decreasing the number of matches.)

On the Eurogenes JTest, people who are fully Ashkenazi typically are reported as having a 25% to 35% Ashkenazi admixture; people who have one Ashkenazi parent might be reported as having an Ashkenazi admixture of 12% to 18%, and people who have one Ashkenazi grandparent might be reported as having an Ashkenazi admixture of 6% to 9%.

People with a known Ashkenazi great grandparent will typically be reported by the JTest as having an Ashkenazi admixture in excess of the 3% that I understand to be background noise.

Absent known Ashkenazi ancestry or a large number of Ashkenazi matches, however, I would not rely upon JTest Ashkenazi admixture percentages to infer recent Ashkenazi ancestry (especially where a person has known Italian or Near Eastern ancestry).

[josh w.]

Because the Ashkenazi Jewish population is endogamous, someone with a single Jewish great grandparent will typically have a disproportionate number of Jewish matches -- perhaps hundreds of them. (Because of the random nature of autosomal DNA inheritance, it is possible, however, that such a person may have inherited relatively few 7 cM+ segments from his or her Ashkenazi ancestor, decreasing the number of matches.)

On the Eurogenes JTest, people who are fully Ashkenazi typically are reported as having a 25% to 35% Ashkenazi admixture; people who have one Ashkenazi parent might be reported as having an Ashkenazi admixture of 12% to 18%, and people who have one Ashkenazi grandparent might be reported as having an Ashkenazi admixture of 6% to 9%.

People with a known Ashkenazi great grandparent will typically be reported by the JTest as having an Ashkenazi admixture in excess of the 3% that I understand to be background noise.

Absent known Ashkenazi ancestry or a large number of Ashkenazi matches, however, I would not rely upon JTest Ashkenazi admixture percentages to infer recent Ashkenazi ancestry (especially where a person has known Italian or Near Eastern ancestry).

Yes the Jtest may have false positives. I would look at the East Med (Levant) component on the other Eurogenes programs, e.g. the default program.

[josh w.]

Yes the Jtest may have false positives. I would look at the East Med (Levant) component on the other Eurogenes programs, e.g. the default program.

Also look at the West Asian component. In addition use the Oracle 4 option.

[mollyblum]

Hi all. I have a question concerning genetic genealogy. I purchased Family Finder, and later transferred the results to Gedmatch. On FTDNA myOrigins I get no Jewish diaspora, only 91% European (mixed) and 9% Asia Minor. On Jtest I get 4.5% Ashkenazi, 7.5% East Med, 5.6% West Asian (the rest is an European mix). Now, in my family there was a story that one of the grandmothers was a Jewish convert. Do these result point that the story is not true? Thanks!

If your grandmother that you believe to be Jewish was 100% Jewish I would expect you to have 100's if not at least 1K Jewish matches in FF. My mother is 50% Jewish (mixture of Ashkenazi and Sephardic from her mother who was 100% Jewish). I am 25% Jewish and have over one thousand Jewish matches in Family Finder. Aside from your breakdown of percentages (I also have a little over 25% Jewish population- 7-8% Sephardic and 18% Ashkenazic) do you have any Jewish matches in your list? I can see you maybe not inheriting as many as me or Josh or as many as my cousins but you should have some???

[John McCoy]

How do you know which of your Family Finder matches are Jewish?

[JeffWexler]

Surnames, ancestral surnames, and most distant ancestors are a fairly good guide as to the origins of matches (including Jewish matches) in the aggregate, although often not reliable in individual cases.

People who are reported on myOrigins as having a Jewish Diaspora admixture can check to see whether they have a substantial number of matches (third to fifth cousins or closer) who are reported as having a Jewish Diaspora admixture.

Alternatively, one could send his or her match list to someone who manages Ashkenazi kits and is familiar with the kits' match lists. My guess is that perhaps half of all Ashkenazi Jews are reported as Family Finder matches for each other, so people managing Ashkenazi kits will have a head start in evaluating the matches.

[zilch]

I only have 200 matches in FF... I checked several people from the first 20 positions on the list and found out that (probably) half of them might be Jewish. This is based on surnames, some googling (found one "4th-remote cousin" in Jewish chronicles, another is a lawyer at Florida), and finding one "4th cousin" at Gedmatch (she has ~26 Ashkenazi in Jtest).

I'm Polish, so I assumed that the low result on JTest + no Jewish Diaspora on FF mean that the story about Jewish great grandmother can be falsified. So many Jews are of Polish ancestry, couldn't this explain that I have some (supposedly) Jewish matches?

I ran Eurogenes-K13 and got in oracle-4:
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.16
2 North_Atlantic 26.94
3 West_Med 13.89
4 East_Med 9.41
5 West_Asian 7.94
6 South_Asian 1.66

EUTest returns:
# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 26.19
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 18.62
3 EAST_EURO 17.04
4 ATLANTIC 12.88
5 EAST_MED 9.37
6 WEST_MED 9.32
7 WEST_ASIAN 6.58

Then I ran Eurogenes-K36 and got:
Armenian 0.63
Basque 0.15
Central_Euro 7.61
East_Balkan 6.99
East_Central_Euro 19.10
Eastern_Euro 12.43
Fennoscandian 13.58
French 4.26
Iberian 5.39
Italian 14.50
North_Atlantic 5.31
North_Caucasian 1.61
North_Sea 5.80
West_Caucasian 1.78
West_Med 0.86

[khazaria]

All full Ashkenazim have some amounts of East Mediterranean, Near Eastern, Arabian, and North African in Eurogenes K36, especially significant amounts for East Med and Near Eastern. The first 3 are core elements that the Israelite people must have held. Your results show no sign of them so this might be suggestive that your common ancestor with those possible Ashkenazim was a Pole. On the other hand, your "Italian" affinity is much higher than the Polish average of 3.38%, and you do have a slight "Armenian" affinity, and both of those elements are important features of Ashkenazic genetics as well.

The next step is to do segment analysis. Some of these undocumented Polish ancestors left their mark with segments that paint as part "South Baltic" and part "Eastern European" in such estimators as Eurogenes' Jtest and EUtest.

[zilch]

Hi khazaria, thanks! Do you happen to know the variance of this Italian affinity in Poland? I just read that there were small Sephardic and Mizrachi (didn't know about those) communities in the places where my g-grandmother came from. This was the only place in Poland with a significant Sephardic population. From the given data, can it be disproved that she was either of those? I never thought about such a possibility.

This is both fascinating and confusing :-)

[josh w.]

I only have 200 matches in FF... I checked several people from the first 20 positions on the list and found out that (probably) half of them might be Jewish. This is based on surnames, some googling (found one "4th-remote cousin" in Jewish chronicles, another is a lawyer at Florida), and finding one "4th cousin" at Gedmatch (she has ~26 Ashkenazi in Jtest).

I'm Polish, so I assumed that the low result on JTest + no Jewish Diaspora on FF mean that the story about Jewish great grandmother can be falsified. So many Jews are of Polish ancestry, couldn't this explain that I have some (supposedly) Jewish matches?

I ran Eurogenes-K13 and got in oracle-4:
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.16
2 North_Atlantic 26.94
3 West_Med 13.89
4 East_Med 9.41
5 West_Asian 7.94
6 South_Asian 1.66

EUTest returns:
# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 26.19
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 18.62
3 EAST_EURO 17.04
4 ATLANTIC 12.88
5 EAST_MED 9.37
6 WEST_MED 9.32
7 WEST_ASIAN 6.58

Then I ran Eurogenes-K36 and got:
Armenian 0.63
Basque 0.15
Central_Euro 7.61
East_Balkan 6.99
East_Central_Euro 19.10
Eastern_Euro 12.43
Fennoscandian 13.58
French 4.26
Iberian 5.39
Italian 14.50
North_Atlantic 5.31
North_Caucasian 1.61
North_Sea 5.80
West_Caucasian 1.78
West_Med 0.86

You may have to live with ambiguity. I had doubted Ashkenazi ancestry in part because you were showing West Asian. Among Ashkenazis, East Med is much greater than West Asian. Your results do point to the Near East. Mizrachis from that region cannot be ruled out. Southern Italians are close to both Ashkenazis and Sephardis. What does your Oracle 4 population show.
By the way MO's location for Ashkenazis is misleading. At Eurogenes, the most important geographical regions for Jews are East Med, Southern Italy and lastly Eastern Europe (not just Poland). DNA Land is a little bit better than MO in showing the Levant and Eastern Europe.

[zilch]

What does your Oracle 4 population show.

I'll paste the results below (sorry for the long post). This does seem east-central european, doesn't it? The unexpected (for me) are Hungarian and Tuscan.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Jtest:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 HU @ 7.604078
2 UA @ 8.188671
3 PL @ 8.511791
4 Ukrainian-Russian @ 10.476881
5 West_Russian @ 11.224946
6 AT @ 12.496910
7 Belorussian @ 12.895081
8 Serbian @ 13.141764
9 RO @ 15.640847
10 Northwest_Russian @ 15.803803
11 EE @ 15.888524
12 East_Russian @ 16.906557
13 South_Finnish @ 16.923462
14 LIT @ 17.618767
15 East_Finnish @ 18.403797
16 North_Russian @ 19.632767
17 North_Swedish @ 19.685099
18 West_&_Central_German @ 19.827477
19 Erzya @ 20.105635
20 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 20.448957

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% HU +50% UA @ 3.796730


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian +25% Tuscan +25% UA @ 3.574615


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 LIT + Tuscan + UA + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.136234
2 LIT + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.149008
3 LIT + PL + Tuscan + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.309955
4 LIT + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.334774
5 HU + Serbian + UA + UA @ 3.423787
6 LIT + Tuscan + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.468759
7 LIT + Tuscan + UA + West_Russian @ 3.483831
8 Belorussian + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.485073
9 LIT + Serbian + Serbian + UA @ 3.493384
10 Northwest_Russian + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.514986
11 Belorussian + Tuscan + UA + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.554668
12 Belorussian + Belorussian + Tuscan + UA @ 3.574615
13 Belorussian + LIT + Tuscan + UA @ 3.608390
14 Northwest_Russian + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.629602
15 Belorussian + HU + Serbian + UA @ 3.636568
16 HU + PL + Serbian + UA @ 3.646230
17 LIT + RO + Serbian + UA @ 3.666528
18 LIT + PL + Serbian + Serbian @ 3.677135
19 Belorussian + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.686220
20 HU + LIT + Serbian + UA @ 3.693974

Eurogenes K13:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Croatian @ 4.043084
2 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.523828
3 Ukrainian @ 6.229197
4 South_Polish @ 6.530441
5 Moldavian @ 7.250468
6 Polish @ 9.952879
7 Hungarian @ 10.090275
8 Southwest_Russian @ 10.164089
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 10.533680
10 Russian_Smolensk @ 11.962487
11 Estonian_Polish @ 12.586098
12 Belorussian @ 13.403899
13 East_German @ 13.576499
14 Serbian @ 14.427799
15 Austrian @ 14.637473
16 Kargopol_Russian @ 15.162560
17 Erzya @ 17.279808
18 Southwest_Finnish @ 18.062183
19 Estonian @ 18.075253
20 Lithuanian @ 18.151476

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Moldavian +50% Ukrainian @ 2.467287


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian +25% Croatian +25% Southwest_Russian @ 2.076474


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian @ 1.806712
2 Bulgarian + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 1.931744
3 Bulgarian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.014907
4 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + South_Polish @ 2.045704
5 Croatian + Croatian + Croatian + Southwest_Russian @ 2.076474
6 Bulgarian + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.097588
7 Croatian + Lithuanian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 2.110028
8 Croatian + Croatian + Croatian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.118343
9 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Moldavian + Polish @ 2.121009
10 Lithuanian + Moldavian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 2.124832
11 Romanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.131657
12 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.133527
13 Greek_Thessaly + Lithuanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.173958
14 Greek_Thessaly + Lithuanian + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 2.185484
15 Bulgarian + Russian_Smolensk + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 2.187053
16 Bulgarian + South_Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.187255
17 Bulgarian + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.188543
18 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Moldavian + Ukrainian @ 2.205579
19 Croatian + Croatian + Estonian_Polish + Moldavian @ 2.263096
20 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Polish @ 2.267665

[josh w.]

I'll paste the results below (sorry for the long post). This does seem east-central european, doesn't it? The unexpected (for me) are Hungarian and Tuscan.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Jtest:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 HU @ 7.604078
2 UA @ 8.188671
3 PL @ 8.511791
4 Ukrainian-Russian @ 10.476881
5 West_Russian @ 11.224946
6 AT @ 12.496910
7 Belorussian @ 12.895081
8 Serbian @ 13.141764
9 RO @ 15.640847
10 Northwest_Russian @ 15.803803
11 EE @ 15.888524
12 East_Russian @ 16.906557
13 South_Finnish @ 16.923462
14 LIT @ 17.618767
15 East_Finnish @ 18.403797
16 North_Russian @ 19.632767
17 North_Swedish @ 19.685099
18 West_&_Central_German @ 19.827477
19 Erzya @ 20.105635
20 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 20.448957

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% HU +50% UA @ 3.796730


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian +25% Tuscan +25% UA @ 3.574615


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 LIT + Tuscan + UA + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.136234
2 LIT + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.149008
3 LIT + PL + Tuscan + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.309955
4 LIT + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.334774
5 HU + Serbian + UA + UA @ 3.423787
6 LIT + Tuscan + Ukrainian-Russian + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.468759
7 LIT + Tuscan + UA + West_Russian @ 3.483831
8 Belorussian + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.485073
9 LIT + Serbian + Serbian + UA @ 3.493384
10 Northwest_Russian + Tuscan + UA + UA @ 3.514986
11 Belorussian + Tuscan + UA + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.554668
12 Belorussian + Belorussian + Tuscan + UA @ 3.574615
13 Belorussian + LIT + Tuscan + UA @ 3.608390
14 Northwest_Russian + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.629602
15 Belorussian + HU + Serbian + UA @ 3.636568
16 HU + PL + Serbian + UA @ 3.646230
17 LIT + RO + Serbian + UA @ 3.666528
18 LIT + PL + Serbian + Serbian @ 3.677135
19 Belorussian + PL + Tuscan + UA @ 3.686220
20 HU + LIT + Serbian + UA @ 3.693974

Eurogenes K13:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Croatian @ 4.043084
2 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.523828
3 Ukrainian @ 6.229197
4 South_Polish @ 6.530441
5 Moldavian @ 7.250468
6 Polish @ 9.952879
7 Hungarian @ 10.090275
8 Southwest_Russian @ 10.164089
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 10.533680
10 Russian_Smolensk @ 11.962487
11 Estonian_Polish @ 12.586098
12 Belorussian @ 13.403899
13 East_German @ 13.576499
14 Serbian @ 14.427799
15 Austrian @ 14.637473
16 Kargopol_Russian @ 15.162560
17 Erzya @ 17.279808
18 Southwest_Finnish @ 18.062183
19 Estonian @ 18.075253
20 Lithuanian @ 18.151476

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Moldavian +50% Ukrainian @ 2.467287


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian +25% Croatian +25% Southwest_Russian @ 2.076474


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian @ 1.806712
2 Bulgarian + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 1.931744
3 Bulgarian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.014907
4 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + South_Polish @ 2.045704
5 Croatian + Croatian + Croatian + Southwest_Russian @ 2.076474
6 Bulgarian + Russian_Smolensk + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.097588
7 Croatian + Lithuanian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 2.110028
8 Croatian + Croatian + Croatian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.118343
9 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Moldavian + Polish @ 2.121009
10 Lithuanian + Moldavian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 2.124832
11 Romanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.131657
12 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.133527
13 Greek_Thessaly + Lithuanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.173958
14 Greek_Thessaly + Lithuanian + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 2.185484
15 Bulgarian + Russian_Smolensk + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 2.187053
16 Bulgarian + South_Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.187255
17 Bulgarian + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.188543
18 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Moldavian + Ukrainian @ 2.205579
19 Croatian + Croatian + Estonian_Polish + Moldavian @ 2.263096
20 Bulgarian + Croatian + Lithuanian + Polish @ 2.267665

I would trust K13 over the Jtest. The Bulgarian component might explain Near Eastern ancestry. Bulgarians show a fair amount of Near Eastern lines given their closeness to West Asia. Don't know about Tuscan lines. Might just be an Italian ancestor. Croatia borders on northeastern Italy but it is some distance from Tuscany. Hungary does not rank high on K13 and most Hungarians are of Slavic rather than Asian ancestry. Don't see any Jewish lines. It is possible that a sibling of your direct line married someone who was Jewish.

[josh w.]

I would trust K13 over the Jtest. The Bulgarian component might explain Near Eastern ancestry. Bulgarians show a fair amount of Near Eastern lines given their closeness to West Asia. Don't know about Tuscan lines. Might just be an Italian ancestor. Croatia borders on northeastern Italy but it is some distance from Tuscany. Hungary does not rank high on K13 and most Hungarians are of Slavic rather than Asian ancestry. Don't see any Jewish lines. It is possible that a sibling of your direct line married someone who was Jewish.

The Polish Lithuanian Empire included the western Ukraine. Croatia was once part of the Roman Empire.