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  • My Mom, according to family lore, had a maternal grandfather from Turkey (who was presumably Sephardic). (Her other three grandparents were Ashkenazim from Moldova, Ukraine, and Romania.)

    According to DNA.land's new admixture formula, she is West Eurasian 100%, comprised of Ashkenazi 90%, Sardinian 7.5%, and Ambiguous 2.8% (the percentages don't quite add up).

    MyOrigins reports her as 91% Jewish Diaspora (all Ashkenazi Diaspora) and 9% Middle Eastern (all Asia Minor).

    It seems that DNA.land is reporting as a Sardinian admixture roughly the same components that MyOrigins is reporting as Middle Eastern (Asia Minor). Perhaps the pre-Expulsion Jewish population in Sardinia has, through conversos and/or intermarriage, significantly contributed to current Sardinian admixtures.

    I wonder whether, and to what extent, Sephardic ancestry is reported by DNA.land as a combination of Sardinian and Ashkenazi admixture.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JeffWexler View Post
      My Mom, according to family lore, had a maternal grandfather from Turkey (who was presumably Sephardic). (Her other three grandparents were Ashkenazim from Moldova, Ukraine, and Romania.)

      According to DNA.land's new admixture formula, she is West Eurasian 100%, comprised of Ashkenazi 90%, Sardinian 7.5%, and Ambiguous 2.8% (the percentages don't quite add up).

      MyOrigins reports her as 91% Jewish Diaspora (all Ashkenazi Diaspora) and 9% Middle Eastern (all Asia Minor).

      It seems that DNA.land is reporting as a Sardinian admixture roughly the same components that MyOrigins is reporting as Middle Eastern (Asia Minor). Perhaps the pre-Expulsion Jewish population in Sardinia has, through conversos and/or intermarriage, significantly contributed to current Sardinian admixtures.

      I wonder whether, and to what extent, Sephardic ancestry is reported by DNA.land as a combination of Sardinian and Ashkenazi admixture.
      Sephardim lived all over the Mediterranean. I wonder if the combination of Ashkenazi and Med Island also points to Sephardis

      Comment


      • Originally posted by josh w. View Post
        Sephardim lived all over the Mediterranean. I wonder if the combination of Ashkenazi and Med Island also points to Sephardis
        It may depend on the definition of 'Sephardic'. Does it refer only to the Jews of Spain or does it include Jews who accompanied the Arabs (and Berbers) in the Arab invasion of southern Europe whether or not they ever lived in Spain.

        I will use Eurogenes' geographic regions. The admixture program divides the area up into the West and the East Mediterranean The two regions separate roughly by the
        Tyrrhenian Sea. Sardinia is clearly in the West along with France and Spain The East Med includes Sicily, Malta and Cyprus. All three islands had significant Jewish colonies during the Arab period (Before Ottoman control)

        P.S On the other DNA Land thread, there was another report of Med Islands listed under Ashkenazi/Levant. The indivdidual did not have a strong Jewish background

        Comment


        • As I told Jeff Wexler by email, within the past day I've confirmed that Jeff's mom has several autosomal segments of Sephardic origin that match with Mexicans from northeastern Mexico and south Texas. These were areas where Sephardic Conversos (but not Ashkenazim) settled in the 1500s-1600s. The segments have good sizes and triangulate amongst the match clusters as well as phase to him, and one of the segments also phases between another parent-child pair.

          Isolated communities of Converso descendants (whether from Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Belmonte Portugal, Bragan├ža Portugal, or Mallorca Spain or some other applicable community) are necessary to confirm the Sephardicness of a segment with the highest confidence, since I've learned that even Syrian Jews and North African Jews have small amounts of Ashkenazic ancestry. There were also Ashkenazim living in Monastir Macedonia, Romania, Istanbul Turkey, Italy, and the Netherlands. Contrary to the idea that Ashkenazim and Sephardim never intermarried in the Mediterranean region, surname evidence shows they certainly did on occasion, just like Mizrahim married Sephardim in West Asia and Romaniotes married Sephardim in Greece.

          The best segments I've seen show some combination such as Mexican + Puerto Rican + Ashkenazi matches, or Mexican + Brazilian + Ashkenazi, or Mexican + North African Jewish + Ashkenazi. If we had more Brazilian and North African Jewish participants we'd see these multifaceted patterns more often. Even better would be if somebody from the Belmonte or Mallorca communities would respond in the affirmative to my recent invitations to test them.

          It doesn't matter so much what these calculators guess or don't guess for your overall ancestry as none of them are perfect and they are there to give hints. What matters more are what kinds of people you're matching and a reasonably accurate ethnicity/regional estimate for the particular segment you match them on.
          Last edited by khazaria; 10 April 2016, 08:15 AM.

          Comment


          • Here's mine. It seems spot on to me, other than the fact my Ashkenazi/Levantine disappeared. I think it might of dropped into the Ambiguous, because I have Ambiguous all throughtout the Levant regin on the map. Sardinian reflecting Sephardic?


            West Eurasian: 100%

            North Slavic: 36%

            South European: 29%
            -Balkan: 16%
            -Italian: 13%

            North/Central European: 14%

            Southwestern European: 13%
            -Sardinian: 7%
            -Southwest European: 6.4%

            Ambiguous: 8%

            Comment


            • DNA.land:
              • North/central European - 82%
              • Balkan - 12%
              • North Slavic - 4.9%
              • Southwestern European - 1%


              myOrigins:
              • British Isles - 95%
              • Eastern Middle East - 4%
              • Central Asia - 1%


              As I'm 75% Irish and the rest looks to be English, myOrigins seems the most accurate assessment of my background over the last few hundred years (some of the Irish lines are Anglo-Norman which might mix it up over a longer period of time). The Eastern Middle East is a little unusual but who knows what I might find as I push my tree back.
              Last edited by Conat; 10 April 2016, 10:19 AM.

              Comment


              • here's my grandma's dna.land results(the find relatives part hasn't matched her to my mom and aunt yet even though they show up on gedmatch and parent/child)
                Southwestern European 29%
                Sardinian 1.6%
                Italian 4.8%
                Balkan 3.4%
                Mediterranean Islander 5.3%
                Central Indoeuropean 4.2%
                Finnish 1.6%
                ambiguous west eurasian 1.3%
                Native American 45%
                West African 1.2%
                East African 1.1%
                Ambiguous 1.6%

                her myorigins
                southern european 47%
                finland/siberaia 7%
                scandinavia 2%
                new world 28%
                east asia 10%
                africa 5%

                Comment


                • I notice the Circle on the map, around the Poland area. Is this the highest concentration?
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by khazaria View Post
                    It doesn't matter so much what these calculators guess or don't guess for your overall ancestry as none of them are perfect and they are there to give hints.
                    Generally agree, but that's presuming the calculators have been sufficiently tweaked after feedback. There simply isn't any way that my mother is 54% Balkan - neither 23 nor FTDNA, nor any of the Gedmatch calculators show that much; waiting on her Ancestry results now. Years ago, Dr. MacDonald told me my mother was difficult to peg, and she typically has a higher margin of error at Gedmatch than does my father. Wish I knew if most Sicilians share the same issue.
                    Originally posted by khazaria View Post
                    What matters more are what kinds of people you're matching and a reasonably accurate ethnicity/regional estimate for the particular segment you match them on.
                    Perhaps for the last 400-500 years, yes. But it's my understanding that AIMs go back much farther, and are different than what is used to determine cousin matching with shared ancestral components. Also, the new DNA.Land results show I have one 5th cousin match who doesn't match either of my parents. With over 17K people in their database, they've either set the bar too high - they're looking for a minimum 15cM share - or something else is wrong - and they obviously have need of many more Italian/Sicilian records. Edit: I am the only match that either of my parents has.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by vinnie View Post
                      Generally agree, but that's presuming the calculators have been sufficiently tweaked after feedback. There simply isn't any way that my mother is 54% Balkan - neither 23 nor FTDNA, nor any of the Gedmatch calculators show that much; waiting on her Ancestry results now. Years ago, Dr. MacDonald told me my mother was difficult to peg, and she typically has a higher margin of error at Gedmatch than does my father. Wish I knew if most Sicilians share the same issue. Perhaps for the last 400-500 years, yes. But it's my understanding that AIMs go back much farther, and are different than what is used to determine cousin matching with shared ancestral components. Also, the new DNA.Land results show I have one 5th cousin match who doesn't match either of my parents. With over 17K people in their database, they've either set the bar too high - they're looking for a minimum 15cM share - or something else is wrong - and they obviously have need of many more Italian/Sicilian records. Edit: I am the only match that either of my parents has.

                      My Balkan is definitely too high as well. Should be more Italian or Sardinian. I don't expect % to be right these days though.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by vinnie View Post
                        Generally agree, but that's presuming the calculators have been sufficiently tweaked after feedback. There simply isn't any way that my mother is 54% Balkan - neither 23 nor FTDNA, nor any of the Gedmatch calculators show that much; waiting on her Ancestry results now. Years ago, Dr. MacDonald told me my mother was difficult to peg, and she typically has a higher margin of error at Gedmatch than does my father. Wish I knew if most Sicilians share the same issue. Perhaps for the last 400-500 years, yes. But it's my understanding that AIMs go back much farther, and are different than what is used to determine cousin matching with shared ancestral components. Also, the new DNA.Land results show I have one 5th cousin match who doesn't match either of my parents. With over 17K people in their database, they've either set the bar too high - they're looking for a minimum 15cM share - or something else is wrong - and they obviously have need of many more Italian/Sicilian records. Edit: I am the only match that either of my parents has.
                        Is there any way to see a description of each region. Does Balkan exclude Greece

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                          Is there any way to see a description of each region. Does Balkan exclude Greece
                          North Slavic

                          Includes: Belarusian in Belarus; Estonian in Estonia; Lithuanian in Lithuania; Mordovian and Russian in Russia and Ukrainian in Ukraine.

                          Balkan

                          Includes: Albanian in Albania; Bulgarian in Bulgaria and Greek in (2 sites) Greece.

                          Italian

                          Includes: Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 1 other site) Italy.

                          North/central European

                          Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands.

                          Sardinian

                          Includes: Sardinian in (Sardinia) Italy.

                          Southwestern European

                          Includes: Basque/French and French in (South and 1 other site) France and Basque/Spanish and Iberian Population in Spain.

                          Ambiguous West Eurasian

                          West Eurasian is a very general category containing Arab/Egyptian, Ashkenazi/Levantine, Central Asian, Northeast European, South Asian, South European, North/central European, Southwestern European and Central Indoeuropean.

                          Comment


                          • Mediterranean Islander Includes: Cypriot in Cyprus; Italian/EastSicilian and Italian/WestSicilian in Italy and Maltese in Malta

                            Arab/Egyptian Includes: Egyptian in (2 sites) Egypt; Palestinian, BedouinA and BedouinB in (Central, Negev and 1 other site) Israel; Jordanian in Jordan; Saudi in Saudi Arabia; Syrian in Syrian and Yemen and Yemenite Jew in Yemen

                            Central Indoeuropean Includes: Abkhasian in Abkhazia; Armenian in Armenia; Georgian/Megrels in Georgia; Iranian in Iran; Druze in (Carmel) Israel; Balkar, Chechen, Kumyk, Lezgin, North Ossetian and Adygei in (Caucasus and 5 other sites) Russia and Turkish in (Adana, Aydin, Balikesir, Istanbul, Kayseri, Trabzon and 1 other site) Turkey

                            Ambiguous South European

                            South European is a general category containing Italian and Balkan

                            Ambiguous African

                            African is a very general category containing East African, West African, Pygmy, North African and Southern African

                            Comment


                            • Just posting first Dna land report using Ftdna data(36 build) as second one(36 build) is very similar

                              North/central European 87%
                              Mediterranean islander 11%
                              Ambiguous West Eurasian 1.7%
                              Ambiguous other 1.3%

                              My origins

                              British isles 61%
                              Scandinavia 37%
                              North Africa 1%


                              The minority populations from these autosomal tests do seem to vary.

                              Geno 2 Native American 2%
                              My origins North Africa 1%
                              Dna land(Ftdna 37 build) Amazonian 1%
                              WeGene Uzbek 3.56%
                              Last edited by gatty; 10 April 2016, 09:42 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by vinnie View Post
                                Mediterranean Islander Includes: Cypriot in Cyprus; Italian/EastSicilian and Italian/WestSicilian in Italy and Maltese in Malta

                                Arab/Egyptian Includes: Egyptian in (2 sites) Egypt; Palestinian, BedouinA and BedouinB in (Central, Negev and 1 other site) Israel; Jordanian in Jordan; Saudi in Saudi Arabia; Syrian in Syrian and Yemen and Yemenite Jew in Yemen

                                Central Indoeuropean Includes: Abkhasian in Abkhazia; Armenian in Armenia; Georgian/Megrels in Georgia; Iranian in Iran; Druze in (Carmel) Israel; Balkar, Chechen, Kumyk, Lezgin, North Ossetian and Adygei in (Caucasus and 5 other sites) Russia and Turkish in (Adana, Aydin, Balikesir, Istanbul, Kayseri, Trabzon and 1 other site) Turkey

                                Ambiguous South European

                                South European is a general category containing Italian and Balkan

                                Ambiguous African

                                African is a very general category containing East African, West African, Pygmy, North African and Southern African
                                Taz85 and Vinnie. thanks much. The Balkan component in those of Italian origin may just represent Greece, As you know, there was a significant Greek presence in eastern Italy and Sicily. Is there any source where i can find the descriptions

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