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  • My Origins Ashkenazi Jewish

    A kit I manages has :-

    European 60%

    Scandinavia 34%
    eastern Europe 34%
    British Isle 8%
    Western & Central Europe 6%

    Jewish Diaspora 37%

    Ashkenazi Diaspora 37%

    Central/South Asian 2%

    Central Asia 2%

    Maternal side is known, and the known paper trail is all in England, paternal side is unknown. Is it reasonable to assume that the father is Jewish?

    Thanks

    James

  • #2
    Yes, very much so, at least one of their grandparents was probably Ashkenazic Jewish if this person has 37 percent Ashkenazi Diaspora. Such a high score would not be a fluke.

    Do they have at least 1000 Ashkenazic matches inside Family Finder?

    Do they have an "Ashkenazi" score between around 12 and 18 percent in Gedmatch's admixture test for Eurogenes: Jtest?

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply

      Ashkenazi 13.19% on J Test

      I think there are at least 1400 Ashkenazic Jewish matches at a conservative estimate!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by defcrow View Post
        Ashkenazi 13.19% on J Test
        A score above 10% signifies genuine Ashkenazi ancestry for just about everybody. Up to 10% is less clear, especially for Southern Europeans. Below 3% usually means no Ashkenazi ancestry.

        For comparison, a kit belonging to somebody who is half-Ashkenazi, quarter-British, and quarter-Swedish scores 14.41% Ashkenazi in Jtest. Half-Ashkenazim apparently can score from 14% up to 17%.

        People who are about three-fourths Ashkenazi score about 21-23 % Ashkenazi in Jtest.

        People with four Ashkenazi grandparents but with some detectable non-Ashkenazi admixture within the past approximately 400 years typically score between 24 and 28 % Ashkenazi in Jtest.

        People of full Ashkenazi ancestry score between 27 and 41 % with the lower scores belonging to Eastern European Jews and the highest percentages belonging to German Jews.

        I think there are at least 1400 Ashkenazic Jewish matches at a conservative estimate!!
        That settles it then

        I think nearly everyone with more than around 150 or 200 Ashkenazic matches inside FTDNA has Ashkenazic ancestors even if they don't know that they do. Full Ashkenazim currently have 4000-5000 Ashkenazic matches.

        The person you tested is a member of the Ashkenazic people, but will not automatically be considered a member of the Rabbinical Jewish religion because the current rule is that religion is transmitted through the mother.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by khazaria View Post
          Do they have at least 1000 Ashkenazic matches inside Family Finder?
          How can you tell?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by khazaria View Post
            A score above 10% signifies genuine Ashkenazi ancestry for just about everybody. Up to 10% is less clear, especially for Southern Europeans. Below 3% usually means no Ashkenazi ancestry.

            For comparison, a kit belonging to somebody who is half-Ashkenazi, quarter-British, and quarter-Swedish scores 14.41% Ashkenazi in Jtest. Half-Ashkenazim apparently can score from 14% up to 17%.

            People who are about three-fourths Ashkenazi score about 21-23 % Ashkenazi in Jtest.

            People with four Ashkenazi grandparents but with some detectable non-Ashkenazi admixture within the past approximately 400 years typically score between 24 and 28 % Ashkenazi in Jtest.

            People of full Ashkenazi ancestry score between 27 and 41 % with the lower scores belonging to Eastern European Jews and the highest percentages belonging to German Jews.



            That settles it then

            I think nearly everyone with more than around 150 or 200 Ashkenazic matches inside FTDNA has Ashkenazic ancestors even if they don't know that they do. Full Ashkenazim currently have 4000-5000 Ashkenazic matches.

            The person you tested is a member of the Ashkenazic people, but will not automatically be considered a member of the Rabbinical Jewish religion because the current rule is that religion is transmitted through the mother.
            khazaria, on my jtest, it shows Ashkenazi 5.25%. But I also have a higher score of 10% East Med, and 7% West Asian. Is this a good indication of Ashkenazi ancestry?, or more than likely Sephardic ancestry?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Taz85 View Post
              khazaria, on my jtest, it shows Ashkenazi 5.25%. But I also have a higher score of 10% East Med, and 7% West Asian. Is this a good indication of Ashkenazi ancestry?, or more than likely Sephardic ancestry?
              We in this forum have already discussed your case thoroughly numerous times, such as in http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=30869 and http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=34975 and http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=31595

              Your "Asia Minor" element can be, but is not necessarily, consistent with partial Sephardic ancestry as I will also be explaining in a follow-up post on another topic.

              Your number of matches was deemed by some to be too low even on the database's statistics back in 2012 to represent a pattern consistent with Ashkenazic ancestry, but could be compatible with some other kind of Jewish. How many FF matches do you have today?

              So your map is still showing you have Western/Central European and Eastern European as your other ancestries right, and it doesn't predict Ashkenazic for you right?

              Just a warning that I don't want to get bogged down into this "Am I Jewish?" question with everybody like people seem to expect on Gedmatch which I am quickly tiring of. I posted general parameters for what I have seen by analyzing hundreds of kits using Jtest and from what others have told us, but the rest of the work is up to you. As the owners of your kits, only you can see what kinds of people you match (surnames and locations), what most distant ancestors' names they show on their profile screen, how many In Common With they share with you, what ancestries are predicted in their MyOrigins, what Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups they have.
              Last edited by khazaria; 8th June 2015, 04:01 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks a lot for the info Khazaria. So far the closest Jewish match is a predicted 3rd cousin. Hopefully a predicted 2nd cousin may match at some point, which could provide the breakthrough.

                James

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by khazaria View Post
                  We in this forum have already discussed your case thoroughly numerous times, such as in http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=30869 and http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=34975 and http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=31595

                  Your "Asia Minor" element can be, but is not necessarily, consistent with partial Sephardic ancestry as I will also be explaining in a follow-up post on another topic.

                  Your number of matches was deemed by some to be too low even on the database's statistics back in 2012 to represent a pattern consistent with Ashkenazic ancestry, but could be compatible with some other kind of Jewish. How many FF matches do you have today?

                  So your map is still showing you have Western/Central European and Eastern European as your other ancestries right, and it doesn't predict Ashkenazic for you right?

                  Just a warning that I don't want to get bogged down into this "Am I Jewish?" question with everybody like people seem to expect on Gedmatch which I am quickly tiring of. I posted general parameters for what I have seen by analyzing hundreds of kits using Jtest and from what others have told us, but the rest of the work is up to you. As the owners of your kits, only you can see what kinds of people you match (surnames and locations), what most distant ancestors' names they show on their profile screen, how many In Common With they share with you, what ancestries are predicted in their MyOrigins, what Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups they have.
                  I have about 240 matches here at Ftdna, and 1500 over at Gedmatch. My Origins is still showing Eastern European, 17%, as well as West/Central Europe. Several calculators at Gedmatch show Jewish admixture, of various populations.
                  Last edited by Taz85; 8th June 2015, 04:54 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Taz85 View Post
                    I have about 240 matches here at Ftdna, and 1500 over at Gedmatch.
                    But are many of your FTDNA matches Ashkenazic and are any of those estimated to be 100% Ashkenazic?

                    So many Europeans have 1500 matches on Gedmatch on the default setting because their minimum block length of 7 cM is more lenient than the 7.69 cM here.

                    Several calculators at Gedmatch show Jewish admixture, of various populations.
                    In your oracles too? That could be meaningful, depending on other factors.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How do you know if a particular FF match is Ashkenazi? Is there a quick way to find the total number of matches that are Ashkenazi?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by georgian1950 View Post
                        How do you know if a particular FF match is Ashkenazi? Is there a quick way to find the total number of matches that are Ashkenazi?
                        Mainly it is guesswork. Surname is an imperfect guide--there are internet guides to Yiddish names. A minority of Jews have Hebrew surnames, e.g. Levy or Cohen---but not perfect indicators. Sometimes location may be helpful, areas with a significant Jewish population. Of course, there are people of Jewish ancestry with no obvious Jewish indicators, e.g. Rupert Murdoch, John Kerry, Robert Downey Jr.
                        Last edited by josh w.; 8th June 2015, 09:36 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                          Mainly it is guesswork. Surname is an imperfect guide--there are internet guides to Yiddish names. A minority of Jews have Hebrew surnames, e.g. Levy or Cohen---but not perfect indicators. Sometimes location may be helpful, areas with a significant Jewish population. Of course, there are people of Jewish ancestry with no obvious Jewish indicators, e.g. Rupert Murdoch, John Kerry, Robert Downey Jr.
                          Thanks Josh. That is what I suspected. My Origins gives my step-daughter 19% Ashkenazi, but I wouldn't want to evaluate individually her over 1600 matches. I would guess though that at least half of them have Jewish heritage.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                            Mainly it is guesswork. Surname is an imperfect guide--there are internet guides to Yiddish names. A minority of Jews have Hebrew surnames, e.g. Levy or Cohen---but not perfect indicators. Sometimes location may be helpful, areas with a significant Jewish population. Of course, there are people of Jewish ancestry with no obvious Jewish indicators, e.g. Rupert Murdoch, John Kerry, Robert Downey Jr.
                            Precisely! It is a guesswork.

                            For the families that came recently from Central Europe, you can look at the first names of their ancestors. If they are provided in their original spelling, most of times they can definitely show Ashkenazi origins, as you would not find Mordechaj, Mosze, Szmuel etc. in other populations.

                            W. (Mr.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by khazaria View Post
                              But are many of your FTDNA matches Ashkenazic and are any of those estimated to be 100% Ashkenazic?

                              So many Europeans have 1500 matches on Gedmatch on the default setting because their minimum block length of 7 cM is more lenient than the 7.69 cM here.



                              In your oracles too? That could be meaningful, depending on other factors.
                              I have 750 matches at Gedmatch at 8cM. So most likely around 1000-1100 at 7.7cm.

                              Several of the Oracle's show Jewish admixture. A few of them show Assryian Jewish as the main population around 30% along with Hungarian or Romanian.
                              Last edited by Taz85; 8th June 2015, 11:30 AM.

                              Comment

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