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  • Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe results

    My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

    Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

    European - 87%
    British Isles - 31%
    Scandinavia - 28%
    Western and Central Europe - 25%

    Middle Eastern - 8%
    Asia Minor - 8%

    Jewish Diaspora - 6%
    Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%

  • #2
    Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
    My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

    Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

    European - 87%
    British Isles - 31%
    Scandinavia - 28%
    Western and Central Europe - 25%

    Middle Eastern - 8%
    Asia Minor - 8%

    Jewish Diaspora - 6%
    Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%
    Since all the calculators point in the same direction, your results appear to be accurate. Some British and Scots have Scandinavian ancestry. Dna analysis goes back further than paper trails. For example, any hint of Jewish ancestry although 6% is quite low?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
      My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

      Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

      Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

      European - 87%
      British Isles - 31%
      Scandinavia - 28%
      Western and Central Europe - 25%

      Middle Eastern - 8%
      Asia Minor - 8%

      Jewish Diaspora - 6%
      Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%
      A lot of FTDNA results are showing British DNA as Scandinavian and/or West/central Europe (or vice versa)- this is because British DNA was influenced by the Vikings and Germanic tribes so a lot of British DNA is difficult to distinguish from Scandinavian or Germanic. Either that or you had a non-paternity event somewhere in your tree.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by josh w. View Post
        Since all the calculators point in the same direction, your results appear to be accurate. Some British and Scots have Scandinavian ancestry. Dna analysis goes back further than paper trails. For example, any hint of Jewish ancestry although 6% is quite low?
        I have a maternal third great grandfather who was Polish Jewish but interestingly had a Scottish last name in the form of Munn. I've read that its possible Scots traded around the Baltic sea and a Munn decided to stay. I'll assume that's the Jewish it picks up.

        I would guess the Asian minor might be from the migration patterns into the Balkans which may be connected to the Croatian? It seems like anything past a paper trail is never going to be 100% proved like German or Scandinavian.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Germanica View Post
          A lot of FTDNA results are showing British DNA as Scandinavian and/or West/central Europe (or vice versa)- this is because British DNA was influenced by the Vikings and Germanic tribes so a lot of British DNA is difficult to distinguish from Scandinavian or Germanic. Either that or you had a non-paternity event somewhere in your tree.

          Some areas of Scotland had significant Anglo Saxon presence---this might explain German ancestry.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by josh w. View Post
            Some areas of Scotland had significant Anglo Saxon presence---this might explain German ancestry.
            In most of the Gedmatch calculators German is within the top three population distances for myself which is odd because I assume its more distant and wouldn't think it would be so close compared to English or Serbian/Croatian but on the Oracles German is still well represented. These are my Eurogenes V2 K15 results. My late paternal grandmother mother was 100% Croatian.

            Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
            Admix Results (sorted):

            # Population Percent
            1 North_Sea 30.84
            2 Atlantic 25.2
            3 Baltic 11.65
            4 Eastern_Euro 10.5
            5 West_Med 9.41
            6 East_Med 6.02
            7 West_Asian 4.54
            8 Oceanian 1.11
            9 South_Asian 0.51
            10 Red_Sea 0.22

            Single Population Sharing:

            # Population (source) Distance
            1 South_Dutch 3.7
            2 West_German 5.05
            3 North_German 5.48
            4 Southwest_English 6.99
            5 Southeast_English 6.99
            6 Danish 7.25
            7 North_Dutch 7.74
            8 French 8.12
            9 East_German 8.37
            10 Irish 8.53
            11 West_Scottish 8.96
            12 Norwegian 9.75
            13 Orcadian 10.19
            14 Swedish 10.25
            15 Austrian 11.16
            16 North_Swedish 11.22
            17 West_Norwegian 11.59
            18 Hungarian 11.93
            19 Southwest_Finnish 13.75
            20 Serbian 14.59

            Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

            # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
            1 68.2% Southeast_English + 31.8% Serbian @ 1.84
            2 79.7% Danish + 20.3% Greek @ 1.99
            3 59.2% Orcadian + 40.8% Serbian @ 2.16
            4 62.4% West_Scottish + 37.6% Serbian @ 2.16
            5 73.5% Southeast_English + 26.5% Romanian @ 2.41
            6 78.9% Danish + 21.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.42
            7 75.5% Danish + 24.5% Bulgarian @ 2.43
            8 63.8% Irish + 36.2% Serbian @ 2.49
            9 72.9% Southeast_English + 27.1% Moldavian @ 2.49
            10 78.9% North_Dutch + 21.1% Greek @ 2.52
            11 71.1% West_Scottish + 28.9% Bulgarian @ 2.58
            12 76.4% Southeast_English + 23.6% Bulgarian @ 2.59
            13 67.9% West_Scottish + 32.1% Romanian @ 2.6
            14 77.7% Danish + 22.3% Tuscan @ 2.63
            15 68% Danish + 32% Serbian @ 2.65
            16 72.9% Danish + 27.1% Romanian @ 2.69
            17 82% Danish + 18% Central_Greek @ 2.71
            18 68.2% Orcadian + 31.8% Bulgarian @ 2.74
            19 69% Southwest_English + 31% Serbian @ 2.75
            20 81.4% South_Dutch + 18.6% North_Swedish @ 2.75

            Least-squares method.

            Using 1 population approximation:
            1 South_Dutch @ 4.175
            2 West_German @ 5.885
            3 North_German @ 6.182
            4 Southwest_English @ 7.995
            5 Southeast_English @ 8.006
            6 Danish @ 8.250
            7 North_Dutch @ 8.855
            8 French @ 9.246
            9 East_German @ 9.739
            10 Irish @ 9.775


            Using 2 populations approximation:
            1 50% Austrian +50% Orcadian @ 3.628
            2 50% Orcadian +50% Serbian @ 3.770
            3 50% South_Dutch +50% West_German @ 3.774
            4 50% North_German +50% South_Dutch @ 3.832
            5 50% North_German +50% West_German @ 3.896
            6 50% South_Dutch +50% South_Dutch @ 4.175
            7 50% French +50% North_German @ 4.200
            8 50% Serbian +50% West_Scottish @ 4.255
            9 50% East_German +50% Southeast_English @ 4.329
            10 50% French +50% North_Swedish @ 4.334

            Using 3 populations approximation:
            1 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Norwegian @ 2.161
            2 50% Southeast_English +25% Serbian +25% West_German @ 2.226
            3 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% West_Norwegian @ 2.228
            4 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.290
            5 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southeast_English @ 2.294
            6 50% Danish +25% Serbian +25% South_Dutch @ 2.296
            7 50% Danish +25% North_Italian +25% North_Swedish @ 2.300
            8 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Serbian @ 2.312
            9 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Romanian @ 2.317
            10 50% Southeast_English +25% North_German +25% Serbian @ 2.335
            643097 iterations.

            Using 4 populations approximation:
            1 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.092
            2 Danish + North_German + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.129
            3 Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German + West_Scottish @ 2.141
            4 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.153
            5 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.161
            6 North_Dutch + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.200
            7 Irish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.212
            8 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 2.221
            9 Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.226
            10 Bulgarian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.228
            11 Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.231
            12 Norwegian + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.242
            13 Danish + Orcadian + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.247
            14 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.287
            15 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southwest_English @ 2.290
            16 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southeast_English @ 2.294
            17 Danish + Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.296
            18 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.300
            19 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.312
            20 Danish + Irish + Serbian + West_German @ 2.316

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
              In most of the Gedmatch calculators German is within the top three population distances for myself which is odd because I assume its more distant and wouldn't think it would be so close compared to English or Serbian/Croatian but on the Oracles German is still well represented. These are my Eurogenes V2 K15 results. My late paternal grandmother mother was 100% Croatian.

              Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
              Admix Results (sorted):

              # Population Percent
              1 North_Sea 30.84
              2 Atlantic 25.2
              3 Baltic 11.65
              4 Eastern_Euro 10.5
              5 West_Med 9.41
              6 East_Med 6.02
              7 West_Asian 4.54
              8 Oceanian 1.11
              9 South_Asian 0.51
              10 Red_Sea 0.22

              Single Population Sharing:

              # Population (source) Distance
              1 South_Dutch 3.7
              2 West_German 5.05
              3 North_German 5.48
              4 Southwest_English 6.99
              5 Southeast_English 6.99
              6 Danish 7.25
              7 North_Dutch 7.74
              8 French 8.12
              9 East_German 8.37
              10 Irish 8.53
              11 West_Scottish 8.96
              12 Norwegian 9.75
              13 Orcadian 10.19
              14 Swedish 10.25
              15 Austrian 11.16
              16 North_Swedish 11.22
              17 West_Norwegian 11.59
              18 Hungarian 11.93
              19 Southwest_Finnish 13.75
              20 Serbian 14.59

              Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

              # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
              1 68.2% Southeast_English + 31.8% Serbian @ 1.84
              2 79.7% Danish + 20.3% Greek @ 1.99
              3 59.2% Orcadian + 40.8% Serbian @ 2.16
              4 62.4% West_Scottish + 37.6% Serbian @ 2.16
              5 73.5% Southeast_English + 26.5% Romanian @ 2.41
              6 78.9% Danish + 21.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.42
              7 75.5% Danish + 24.5% Bulgarian @ 2.43
              8 63.8% Irish + 36.2% Serbian @ 2.49
              9 72.9% Southeast_English + 27.1% Moldavian @ 2.49
              10 78.9% North_Dutch + 21.1% Greek @ 2.52
              11 71.1% West_Scottish + 28.9% Bulgarian @ 2.58
              12 76.4% Southeast_English + 23.6% Bulgarian @ 2.59
              13 67.9% West_Scottish + 32.1% Romanian @ 2.6
              14 77.7% Danish + 22.3% Tuscan @ 2.63
              15 68% Danish + 32% Serbian @ 2.65
              16 72.9% Danish + 27.1% Romanian @ 2.69
              17 82% Danish + 18% Central_Greek @ 2.71
              18 68.2% Orcadian + 31.8% Bulgarian @ 2.74
              19 69% Southwest_English + 31% Serbian @ 2.75
              20 81.4% South_Dutch + 18.6% North_Swedish @ 2.75

              Least-squares method.

              Using 1 population approximation:
              1 South_Dutch @ 4.175
              2 West_German @ 5.885
              3 North_German @ 6.182
              4 Southwest_English @ 7.995
              5 Southeast_English @ 8.006
              6 Danish @ 8.250
              7 North_Dutch @ 8.855
              8 French @ 9.246
              9 East_German @ 9.739
              10 Irish @ 9.775


              Using 2 populations approximation:
              1 50% Austrian +50% Orcadian @ 3.628
              2 50% Orcadian +50% Serbian @ 3.770
              3 50% South_Dutch +50% West_German @ 3.774
              4 50% North_German +50% South_Dutch @ 3.832
              5 50% North_German +50% West_German @ 3.896
              6 50% South_Dutch +50% South_Dutch @ 4.175
              7 50% French +50% North_German @ 4.200
              8 50% Serbian +50% West_Scottish @ 4.255
              9 50% East_German +50% Southeast_English @ 4.329
              10 50% French +50% North_Swedish @ 4.334

              Using 3 populations approximation:
              1 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Norwegian @ 2.161
              2 50% Southeast_English +25% Serbian +25% West_German @ 2.226
              3 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% West_Norwegian @ 2.228
              4 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.290
              5 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southeast_English @ 2.294
              6 50% Danish +25% Serbian +25% South_Dutch @ 2.296
              7 50% Danish +25% North_Italian +25% North_Swedish @ 2.300
              8 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Serbian @ 2.312
              9 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Romanian @ 2.317
              10 50% Southeast_English +25% North_German +25% Serbian @ 2.335
              643097 iterations.

              Using 4 populations approximation:
              1 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.092
              2 Danish + North_German + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.129
              3 Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German + West_Scottish @ 2.141
              4 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.153
              5 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.161
              6 North_Dutch + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.200
              7 Irish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.212
              8 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 2.221
              9 Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.226
              10 Bulgarian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.228
              11 Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.231
              12 Norwegian + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.242
              13 Danish + Orcadian + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.247
              14 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.287
              15 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southwest_English @ 2.290
              16 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southeast_English @ 2.294
              17 Danish + Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.296
              18 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.300
              19 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.312
              20 Danish + Irish + Serbian + West_German @ 2.316
              With Dutch and southeast England populations, Anglo Saxon seems to fit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                With Dutch and southeast England populations, Anglo Saxon seems to fit.
                That's what I was thinking. My haplogroup is R-M269 R1b so I pondered whether they migrated through Germany to Southern Netherlands (Belgae perhaps?) and then onto England. That would justify why I have German and South Dutch appearing but I don't know if that is historically correct.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
                  My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

                  Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

                  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

                  European - 87%
                  British Isles - 31%
                  Scandinavia - 28%
                  Western and Central Europe - 25%

                  Middle Eastern - 8%
                  Asia Minor - 8%

                  Jewish Diaspora - 6%
                  Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%
                  As far as your Scandinavian goes: My guess is that it is largely coming from your British ancestors. Perhaps it's due to Viking influence. Perhaps it's due to more recent Scandinavian immigration to Britain. My father, with one grandmother of Norwegian background, gets matches in England with no known Norwegian ancestry -- I know of one fellow though who came from an area of England which had been settled by Norwegian Vikings. Your Scottish ancestors, especially, probably had some Scandinavian ancestry. (If memory serves me well, several of my maternal grandparents' Scottish ancestors intermarried with people from the Orkney Islands, which were largely settled by Norwegian Vikings.) If your German ancestors came from northern Germany, Scandinavian (especially Danish) is probably in their backgrounds as well.

                  The Jewish Diaspora findings? My guess is that you have a definite Jewish ancestor in there somewhere. It might be past the great-grandparent level but that person existed.
                  Last edited by mixedkid; 20th June 2014, 03:12 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mixedkid View Post
                    As far as your Scandinavian goes: My guess is that it is largely coming from your British ancestors. Perhaps it's due to Viking influence. Perhaps it's due to more recent Scandinavian immigration to Britain. My father, with one grandmother of Norwegian background, gets matches in England with no known Norwegian ancestry -- I know of one fellow though who came from an area of England which had been settled by Norwegian Vikings. Your Scottish ancestors, especially, probably had some Scandinavian ancestry. (If memory serves me well, several of my maternal grandparents' Scottish ancestors intermarried with people from the Orkney Islands, which were largely settled by Norwegian Vikings.) If your German ancestors came from northern Germany, Scandinavian (especially Danish) is probably in their backgrounds as well.

                    The Jewish Diaspora findings? My guess is that you have a definite Jewish ancestor in there somewhere. It might be past the great-grandparent level but that person existed.
                    With regards to the Scandinavian I get some Norwegian variant on Gedmatch calculators but its not consistent. I'm confident the German is legitimate due to how often it appears across the calculators but the Dutch is a slight mystery. Migration paths may explain it along with the Danish. I hardly have any Y-DNA matches in Scandinavia so I guess that must be maternal and the German paternal, as I have a few matches in Germany at the 12 ad 27 marker level.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
                      With regards to the Scandinavian I get some Norwegian variant on Gedmatch calculators but its not consistent. I'm confident the German is legitimate due to how often it appears across the calculators but the Dutch is a slight mystery. Migration paths may explain it along with the Danish. I hardly have any Y-DNA matches in Scandinavia so I guess that must be maternal and the German paternal, as I have a few matches in Germany at the 12 ad 27 marker level.
                      One Saxon pathway was through the Netherlands to southeastern England (Sussex but also Essex). There were Angles in northeastern England near Scotland. There were many Viking locations in Scotland (also some Normans from France).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've been trying to use my surname which is Tomlinson to try and use it as a tool to make sense of Gedmatch results. The Tomlinson's were from Lincolnshire in England which seems to have been in the Danelaw area which could be a Danish surname variant of Tomasson or something similar and therefore explain why I get Danish but that's just guess work.

                        One of my lines is also from Sussex which may explain that result.

                        Comment

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