My Origins Results......

[MeteorMan]

Can of Worms

Thanks for the information Armando, I appreciate it. Where this is becoming a bit complicated, is when it comes to South Eastern Indians. The evidence for a dual migration ancestry, of modern Native American's from Siberia, is building. As the Lake Baikal remains have proven - from DNA analysis - conclusions are yet to be drawn, as to how the peopling of the Americas actually happened.

There is a lot of so called "conspiracy theories", about ancient giants, the Smithsonian cover up, double rows of teeth and such. But there is also many legitimate stories, from people claiming Native American ancestry, that nothing is showing up in their DNA. Could it be that those people are getting "false positives"? As in, their Native American ancestors DNA, is showing up under other ancestral portions, adding to their already recent ancestry from those areas - akin to how Mal'ta boy is more closely related to Europeans and South Asians, than modern East Asians?

I know the number of kind of "transitional period" people's DNA is low - for example those crossing the Bering Land Bridge - and this would effect the way population calculations are made. I'm sure the accuracy would increase with greater sample sizes.

There are still many unknowns, yet to be uncovered.

[MeteorMan]

A couple pictures

I figured this would be best posted here. One picture is of my father, the other is me.

[Armando]

Thanks for the information Armando, I appreciate it. Where this is becoming a bit complicated, is when it comes to South Eastern Indians. The evidence for a dual migration ancestry, of modern Native American's from Siberia, is building. As the Lake Baikal remains have proven - from DNA analysis - conclusions are yet to be drawn, as to how the peopling of the Americas actually happened.

I don't see why you think that this is complicated. Whether it was one or two migrations doesn't change things. The groups involved in each migration would have had to have mixed and created left the autosomal SNP markers found in us today. That goes for Natives in all parts of America - North, Central, and South.

The results of the >20,000 year old Mal'ta boy shows that he was related to the ancestors of Native Americans. This does not change the theory that the migration(s) was/were through the Bering Strait starting about 14,000 years.

There is a lot of so called "conspiracy theories", about ancient giants, the Smithsonian cover up, double rows of teeth and such. But there is also many legitimate stories, from people claiming Native American ancestry, that nothing is showing up in their DNA. Could it be that those people are getting "false positives"? As in, their Native American ancestors DNA, is showing up under other ancestral portions, adding to their already recent ancestry from those areas - akin to how Mal'ta boy is more closely related to Europeans and South Asians, than modern East Asians?

I think it has more to do with the fact that they had too few Native American ancestors and the few that they had was so many generations ago, more than 7 or 8 generations, that the Native American DNA has become so diluted it is not within detectable levels. When a person with 100% NA marries a person with 0% NA the child receives 48%-52% NA. If that child grows up marries another person with 0% NA their child receives 22%-28% NA. If that happens over and over then after 7 or 10 generations, sometimes less then that, the DNA is undetectable. 7 generations at 35 years per generation is 245 years. That takes us back to 1769. The people that claim to have Native American ancestry but aren't finding it in the results of Dodecad globe13, Eurogenes, or AncestryDNA either have the ancestor from pre-1769 or the ancestor never really existed.

I know the number of kind of "transitional period" people's DNA is low - for example those crossing the Bering Land Bridge - and this would effect the way population calculations are made. I'm sure the accuracy would increase with greater sample sizes.

There are still many unknowns, yet to be uncovered.

Apart from the fact that they all crossed the land bridge I am sure there is some DNA not yet identified that would show up if Native American populations in the U.S. were to agree to testing but most of the DNA would be the same that has shown up in other wide ranging NA populations such as the Maya, Pima, Columbian, Karitiana and Surui. Therefore there would not be a huge change.

[MeteorMan]

Aboriginal Pre-Colombus North Americans Admixture

I don't see why you think that this is complicated. Whether it was one or two migrations doesn't change things. The groups involved in each migration would have had to have mixed and created left the autosomal SNP markers found in us today. That goes for Natives in all parts of America - North, Central, and South.

The results of the >20,000 year old Mal'ta boy shows that he was related to the ancestors of Native Americans. This does not change the theory that the migration(s) was/were through the Bering Strait starting about 14,000 years.

How do we know where the waives of migrations would have met and mixed? or even if they walked everywhere that they travelled? Many populations could have been seperated by significant amounts of time. Have you heard of the Ainu, descendents of a people known for their sea faring abilities? They are one of, if not the first peoples of Japan. It is not extraordinary to postulate that communities had travelled together, each with own customs and culture, especially given the amount of archoelogical evidence.

Theoretically, the people within the Hopewell cultural area - consisting of hundreds of thousands of square miles -could have only exchanged admixture with each other, the result? They wouldn't only have SNP markers for Amerindians but also the markers from where there people migrated from a.k.a their ancestors. The arrival of Europeans coincided with the introduction of rapid means of transportation, horses and eventually railways. They also bought disease that wiped out many of the aboriginal people.

The founding of the United States brought political and racial issues, that caused Native Americans to be subdivided, forcibly moved from their lands, eventially encroaching onto the territory of other bands of Natives that, theoretically, could have been genetically quite different due to isolation. A lot of the people did succom to the governments tactics taking on the new way of life, embracing and mixing quite extensively. In the Confederate States , the now Southern United States, that was a very different story as I'm sure you know.

On the archeological side of things, there are many cases of unusually large skulls and bones found in mounds associated with Southern and Eastern Indians, a lot reported with double rows of teeth. They were excavated from the earthworks of the Moundbuilders - which number in the hundreds - some are shaped like animals, some are astrolgically aligned clocks, measuring the seasons and times.

In the more North Eastern regions, were Native's originally numbered far greater than today, many stone works have been found. These have been shown to predict solar events extremely accurately - the structure of the buildings having multiple stone slates each weighing several tonnes a piece for a roof, with woven slate as the walls. Many more stone strucutres can be found within the same regional area, of enourmous size and weight - they bare a similarity to the stone works in Ireland, and Stonehenge in England.

In terms of who populated the region, the North Eastern area is a known trade route of the Hopwell culture, including the Moundbuilders, and many tribes speak of battling with giants. The general consensus among so called academics is - pretty much - that colonialists built them, as well as being formed by the retreating glaciers from the Ice Age.

[Armando]

How do we know where the waives of migrations would have met and mixed? or even if they walked everywhere that they travelled? Many populations could have been seperated by significant amounts of time. Have you heard of the Ainu, descendents of a people known for their sea faring abilities? They are one of, if not the first peoples of Japan. It is not extraordinary to postulate that communities had travelled together, each with own customs and culture, especially given the amount of archoelogical evidence.

Theoretically, the people within the Hopewell cultural area - consisting of hundreds of thousands of square miles -could have only exchanged admixture with each other, the result? They wouldn't only have SNP markers for Amerindians but also the markers from where there people migrated from a.k.a their ancestors. The arrival of Europeans coincided with the introduction of rapid means of transportation, horses and eventually railways. They also bought disease that wiped out many of the aboriginal people.

The founding of the United States brought political and racial issues, that caused Native Americans to be subdivided, forcibly moved from their lands, eventially encroaching onto the territory of other bands of Natives that, theoretically, could have been genetically quite different due to isolation. A lot of the people did succom to the governments tactics taking on the new way of life, embracing and mixing quite extensively. In the Confederate States , the now Southern United States, that was a very different story as I'm sure you know.

On the archeological side of things, there are many cases of unusually large skulls and bones found in mounds associated with Southern and Eastern Indians, a lot reported with double rows of teeth. They were excavated from the earthworks of the Moundbuilders - which number in the hundreds - some are shaped like animals, some are astrolgically aligned clocks, measuring the seasons and times.

In the more North Eastern regions, were Native's originally numbered far greater than today, many stone works have been found. These have been shown to predict solar events extremely accurately - the structure of the buildings having multiple stone slates each weighing several tonnes a piece for a roof, with woven slate as the walls. Many more stone strucutres can be found within the same regional area, of enourmous size and weight - they bare a similarity to the stone works in Ireland, and Stonehenge in England.

In terms of who populated the region, the North Eastern area is a known trade route of the Hopwell culture, including the Moundbuilders, and many tribes speak of battling with giants. The general consensus among so called academics is - pretty much - that colonialists built them, as well as being formed by the retreating glaciers from the Ice Age.

The corridor was too narrow for them not to have mixed and migrations happen in stages as a group effort. Some people stay where they were born and leave descendants and some people move on leaving their relatives behind. The people that move carry the DNA of the relatives that they left behind.

Native Americans from all over the U.S and the rest of America (that includes North, Central, and South) were separated from Asians 5,000 to 25,000 years ago yet the autosomal DNA of Siberians and Northeast Asians is detectable in us. Even if Native Americans in the Southeast U.S. had been separated for 10,000 years there would be a similar Fst distance between them and the South American natives as there is between Pima and Karitiana. The common DNA would be easily detectable. This would happen even with drift from the southeast U.S. natives exchanging admixture with only themselves. They still have the same ancestors as other Native Americans. We are all related.

[MeteorMan]

The corridor was too narrow for them not to have mixed and migrations happen in stages as a group effort. Some people stay where they were born and leave descendants and some people move on leaving their relatives behind. The people that move carry the DNA of the relatives that they left behind.

Native Americans from all over the U.S and the rest of America (that includes North, Central, and South) were separated from Asians 5,000 to 25,000 years ago yet the autosomal DNA of Siberians and Northeast Asians is detectable in us. Even if Native Americans in the Southeast U.S. had been separated for 10,000 years there would be a similar Fst distance between them and the South American natives as there is between Pima and Karitiana. The common DNA would be easily detectable. This would happen even with drift from the southeast U.S. natives exchanging admixture with only themselves. They still have the same ancestors as other Native Americans. We are all related.

If you would like to use evolutionary terms, then you missed out the part about Bottle Necking due to external factors. And what about archaic humans? The ones that according to current Evolutionary Biology Theory, evolved and left Africa along with anatomically modern humans. Neanderthals (~250,000 yrs), Denisovans (>40,000 yrs), Cro-Magnon (43,000 yrs).

What is particularly relevant about Cro-Magnon, is that he is theorised as being a hybrid of modern humans with Neanderthal. Polynesians and Australasians share a significant amount of DNA with Denisovans, and I believe also Neanderthal. Native Americans also have significant levels of archaic human DNA, most from Neanderthals, with a little contribution from Denisovans, according to current analysis.

Obviously there will be more revelations, if DNA is sequenced from ancient remains, and once the technology to detect it improves.

[Armando]

If you would like to use evolutionary terms, then you missed out the part about Bottle Necking due to external factors. And what about archaic humans? The ones that according to current Evolutionary Biology Theory, evolved and left Africa along with anatomically modern humans. Neanderthals (~250,000 yrs), Denisovans (>40,000 yrs), Cro-Magnon (43,000 yrs).

What is particularly relevant about Cro-Magnon, is that he is theorised as being a hybrid of modern humans with Neanderthal. Polynesians and Australasians share a significant amount of DNA with Denisovans, and I believe also Neanderthal. Native Americans also have significant levels of archaic human DNA, most from Neanderthals, with a little contribution from Denisovans, according to current analysis.

None of that has anything to do with why people with supposed Native American ancestry are not getting Native American in their DNA results.

[thetick]

None of that has anything to do with why people with supposed Native American ancestry are not getting Native American in their DNA results.

Because of the lack of Native American samples for the reference population is clearly the reason.

[Armando]

Because of the lack of Native American samples for the reference population is clearly the reason.

That is only part of the reason, which I included in my previous comments. It is not the only reason.

[MeteorMan]

I have noticed many strange things happening, around my home country, and city of Norwich, England. There is an unusually high amount of trails in the atmosphere. I know that they have been speculated to contain Nano-particles, so if anyone else has seen the same, know that it has been observed by myself as well.

It may strike people as paranoia, what has been said, so if there are scientists who frequent these forums - specifically from City College Norwich, University of East Anglia or even hobbyist's, that have unusual readings, it has to be noted this could be related to what I have exposed on these forums.

[MeteorMan]

Health

My health seems to be rapidly deteriorating, since posting here and I think someone has poisoned me. Let it be known that my name is Marcus Howard Aaron Dodd, son of William Howard Dodd, a Vietnam War Veteran, descended from slaves and American Indians.

[gatty]

My health seems to be rapidly deteriorating, since posting here and I think someone has poisoned me. Let it be known that my name is Marcus Howard Aaron Dodd, son of William Howard Dodd, a Vietnam War Veteran, descended from slaves and American Indians.

Marcus,your last two posts are worrying and indicate a high level of paranoia. Are you currently receiving psychiatric treatment and gone off medication, or if on medication finding it is not working as well? Even if such symptoms are new to you i think you should consider seeing a specialist in such matters ie a psychiatrist.
If you want somewhere to talk that is more appropriate than here i recommend http://www.mentalhealthforum.net/ or if you are diagnosed with a schizophrenia illness http://forum.schizophrenia.com/

Tim (Coming out of the closet as a chronic mental illness sufferer)

[MeteorMan]

Consider that Agent Orange was classified as Top Secret, during Vietnam, now it is known as a mutagen. That was a long time ago, and technology has advanced by several orders of magnitude.

Yes, it may be paranoia, but is backed up with accurate information.

[MeteorMan]

Yet again there has been an unusual looking cloud directly over where I live in Norwich. There has to be some type of meteorologist in the area noticing what is happening. The cloud spread very quickly beneath thick white clouds and had a dark consistency. Now the sun is beaming in between an area once full of clouds. Does this sound familiar?

[Aperipatetic1]

On the archeological side of things, there are many cases of unusually large skulls and bones found in mounds associated with Southern and Eastern Indians, a lot reported with double rows of teeth. They were excavated from the earthworks of the Moundbuilders.

In terms of who populated the region, the North Eastern area is a known trade route of the Hopwell culture, including the Moundbuilders, and many tribes speak of battling with giants.

These were all popular tales during the 19th and early 20th century, and you had a lot of private newspapers (many more than today) that were trying to increase circulation by promoting and publishing a lot of sensational stories intended to increase their readership. There were also early newspaper accounts commonly claiming that Bigfoot creatures had attacked hunting parties that were conveniently not from that town, and similar sensational claims.

I think these stories are similar in many cases to the finding of genuinely old dinosaur bones by ancient peoples, eventually leading to tales of giant winged dragons or serpents. In modern cases there is often a profit motive to promote these sort of tales, and most often there is not preserved or extant bone or skeletal material to support the claims of finding any of these 'giants' or excavated populations whose remains exhibit a 'double-row of teeth' skull.

I am not saying that some tribal populations may not have had some legends or stories about 'giants' etc.. but they also had stories about Skinwalkers that would turn into man/wolves and all this in my opinion falls into the same category of Mythology. I really would not waste much consideration of this as relates to population genetics given the absence of any valid reason to do so.