My Origins Results......

[Gemmy42]

When you say "Broadly European" that is actually a renaming of the "Nonspecific" category at 23andme. No for me, the old PF was not better. It is essentially the same, but the new can call me almost half Eastern European instead of predominately Western European (French and Orcadian) in the old PF which was not true.

Sure take them with a grain of salt like grahcom suggested, but then I guess these companies should not even bother to offer this as part of the product. Really I do find the admixture part to be fun, but I want it to help me a little bit with the brick walls that I have.

Let's say you find you never knew you had a certain ancestry. You get a bunch of matches on a certain chromosome that are of the same ancestry. Then hey the admixture test gives you a percentage for that ancestry, and then lo and behold that chromosome where you have those matches is painted with that same ancestry. Pretty cool, and does happen....at 23andme. Could maybe happen for you here if your Dr. McDonald analysis also can show this in a chromosome painting. Shame this update did not have chromosome painting. But then again this left a lot to be desired.....

Who said anything about 23andme? As for taking it all "with a grain of salt", these people are supposed to be VERY SKILLED at determining these admixture results, not just "sort of right" "some of the time". Most people(unless they're members of the scientific community) are here to find out about their heritage(ethnic/racial percentages), because they are researching family history. I don't get your "Dr. McDonald" reference. Humor? I'm glad some (supposed) customers find it delightful to throw away their money on bullsh*t tests. I do not.

[Táltos]

Who said anything about 23andme? As for taking it all "with a grain of salt", these people are supposed to be VERY SKILLED at determining these admixture results, not just "sort of right" "some of the time". Most people(unless they're members of the scientific community) are here to find out about their heritage(ethnic/racial percentages), because they are researching family history. I don't get your "Dr. McDonald" reference. Humor? I'm glad some (supposed) customers find it delightful to throw away their money on bullsh*t tests. I do not.

1. To clarify for you, your post #130 you said:

In my case, it had me as mostly Western European, and "Broadly" European(whatever that was supposed to mean).

Broadly is new terminology that is being used at 23andme, NOT at FTDNA.

2. grahcom is the one who told everyone to take these tests with a grain of salt. And he/she is correct to a certain extent, especially where it regards FTDNA.

3. Make no mistake, and really it is none of your business anyway, but I do not like wasting my money either. As I am quite certain none of the other people who take these tests do.

4.You must be new, so I will explain more. My apologies for thinking everyone knows Dr. McDonald. No joke about Dr. McDonald. He has very generously given his time (for free) to analyzing probably over thousands of peoples raw DNA and giving them his analysis, as a lot of people had been unsatisfied with the old Population Finder. He has population samples that commercial genetic companies do not have ie Na-Dene, Sephardic to name a few. And he would give you a painting of your chromosomes, just like 23andme does. In this case you have a very helpful tool to assist you in your research. FTDNA has dropped the ball in providing this for us. Did you not read the part were I wrote it is a shame?

5. And yes it is delightful. (Actual Customer) I can take my raw data that I paid for and upload it to an excellent site such as Gedmatch, and look at all of the admixture possibilities. I can determine which make the most sense. All for free too, unless I decide to give them a donation. Which they deserve for all they do.

[Gemmy42]

1. To clarify for you, your post #130 you said:
Broadly is new terminology that is being used at 23andme, NOT at FTDNA.

2. grahcom is the one who told everyone to take these tests with a grain of salt. And he/she is correct to a certain extent, especially where it regards FTDNA.

3. Make no mistake, and really it is none of your business anyway, but I do not like wasting my money either. As I am quite certain none of the other people who take these tests do.

4.You must be new, so I will explain more. My apologies for thinking everyone knows Dr. McDonald. No joke about Dr. McDonald. He has very generously given his time (for free) to analyzing probably over thousands of peoples raw DNA and giving them his analysis, as a lot of people had been unsatisfied with the old Population Finder. He has population samples that commercial genetic companies do not have ie Na-Dene, Sephardic to name a few. And he would give you a painting of your chromosomes, just like 23andme does. In this case you have a very helpful tool to assist you in your research. FTDNA has dropped the ball in providing this for us. Did you not read the part were I wrote it is a shame?

5. And yes it is delightful. (Actual Customer) I can take my raw data that I paid for and upload it to an excellent site such as Gedmatch, and look at all of the admixture possibilities. I can determine which make the most sense. All for free too, unless I decide to give them a donation. Which they deserve for all they do.

I don't see on their staff page any Dr. McDonald. Given that you're saying he is working for them, and give other details(that he's done this "for free"): how would you know that unless you are too? A "customer" and an EMPLOYEE too. The fact that you pay SO CLOSE attention to terminology that other companies are using, such that you know when they change it also tells me that you're spying on the competition. I hate this deceptive crap that people pull on these sites, where they "evalutate" the companies they work for. Guess what? The second independent lab came back with results that reflected what is in my family tree. THEY DID IT RIGHT! YOUR COMPANY IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF! Of course, you already know that, that's why you're trying to defend their reputation in this forum. I want my money back, caiche?

[KATM]

Gemmy42, please review the forum guidelines before you make judgments about people.

http://forums.familytreedna.com/faq.php?faq=guidelines_v1

You are way off base and out of line.

[josh w.]

Gemmy42, please review the forum guidelines before you make judgments about people.

http://forums.familytreedna.com/faq.php?faq=guidelines_v1

You are way off base and out of line.

Yes, that was un-called-for. Taltos has been a very serious and dedicated contributor.

[vinnie]

Anybody who knows anything about genetic genealogy knows that Dr. McDonald is a retired professor who helped to develop FTDNA's original Population Finder, and who has since helped an untold number of people interpret their aDNA results for free, independent of FTDNA.

[Mudgeeclarke]

Count to Ten, and take a deep breath ...

... Gemmy42, before you dig yourself deeper into this hole - take a few moments to research. These folks here who are constant and significant contributors (and have the smart genes I didn't get) give great, free advice - or will point you in the right direction. Their only agenda is to be good community members. Everyone can have a bad day and get emotional. Been there, done that. The trick is to know when to stop, and consider. Now is good time for you to do that.

R-Z57. U3b2a

[Gemmy42]

I said what I had to say. If you don't like it, TOUGH! I've been ripped off by the site, sold a bag of good and told, "If you don't like crap we gave you for your hard earned money and misplaced trust in our abilities and integrity, too bad! "Go interpret your own results"! Yeah? Well THAT'S WHAT I PAID YOU FOR!

[EastAnglian]

I said what I had to say. If you don't like it, TOUGH! I've been ripped off by the site, sold a bag of good and told, "If you don't like crap we gave you for your hard earned money and misplaced trust in our abilities and integrity, too bad! "Go interpret your own results"! Yeah? Well THAT'S WHAT I PAID YOU FOR!

I think My Origins is okay for people who know what their ancestry is but not for others looking to learn what it is, for these individuals the product is next to useless. Its far too generic and unspecific.

The chronological timeframe isn't particularly helpful for those using the product for genealogy, I don't really understand pin pointing FF matches on a map when the timeframe is such a long time ago.

[Germanica]

I don't see on their staff page any Dr. McDonald. Given that you're saying he is working for them, and give other details(that he's done this "for free"): how would you know that unless you are too? A "customer" and an EMPLOYEE too. The fact that you pay SO CLOSE attention to terminology that other companies are using, such that you know when they change it also tells me that you're spying on the competition. I hate this deceptive crap that people pull on these sites, where they "evalutate" the companies they work for. Guess what? The second independent lab came back with results that reflected what is in my family tree. THEY DID IT RIGHT! YOUR COMPANY IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF! Of course, you already know that, that's why you're trying to defend their reputation in this forum. I want my money back, caiche?

Lots of people test with more than one DNA company, because they understand that the results are open to interpretation and they want to see as many interpretations as possible. It doesn't mean they secretly work for a DNA company and are "spying on the competition". Paranoid much?

I said what I had to say.

Good, then you can go away now.

[MeteorMan]

Mixed English-American

Having just received the my origins results, as my first autosomal ethnicity test, the results seemed to look about right, for what was expected. See below.

Europe 57%: 24% British Isles; 19% west and central; 12% Scandinavian; 2% Finland and Northern Siberia
Africa 43%: 41% West African; 2% East African
New World 1%: 1% Native American

Although, there is an anomaly, in that the total adds up to 101%! I also ran the raw data through Dodecad Globe 13 and received the following -

Northern European: 28.52%
Mediterranean: 18.73%
West Asian: 5.15%
South West Asian: 1.57%
South Asian: 2.18%
East Asian: 0%
Siberian: 0.02%
Arctic: 0.15%
Australasian: 0.08%
West African: 37.65%
East African: 2.49%
PaleoAfrican: 1.43%
Amerindian: 2.04%

So, as is, myorigins seems to be lumping Native American into Finland and Northern Siberia category. I believe this is due to the fairly recent Mal'ta boy DNA, which was found to be part of an ancestral population of some Native Americans, and also a huge stretch of northern Eurasians.

The European component also has changed quite significantly, along with the complete addition of several Asian components.

Once GEDmatch is back up, I will use their highly regarded calculators, for more scientific insight into the human journey.

[MeteorMan]

Family History

As an addition to my original post, here are some details of our family's history. Mother's side, as far as we know - from genealogical ancestry records - is White British. Father's side is African American, and has a traditional oral history of both Cherokee and Choctaw.

[Zaru]

Finland might not = Native American.

Having just received the my origins results, as my first autosomal ethnicity test, the results seemed to look about right, for what was expected. See below.

Europe 57%: 24% British Isles; 19% west and central; 12% Scandinavian; 2% Finland and Northern Siberia
Africa 43%: 41% West African; 2% East African
New World 1%: 1% Native American

Although, there is an anomaly, in that the total adds up to 101%! I also ran the raw data through Dodecad Globe 13 and received the following -

Northern European: 28.52%
Mediterranean: 18.73%
West Asian: 5.15%
South West Asian: 1.57%
South Asian: 2.18%
East Asian: 0%
Siberian: 0.02%
Arctic: 0.15%
Australasian: 0.08%
West African: 37.65%
East African: 2.49%
PaleoAfrican: 1.43%
Amerindian: 2.04%

So, as is, myorigins seems to be lumping Native American into Finland and Northern Siberia category. I believe this is due to the fairly recent Mal'ta boy DNA, which was found to be part of an ancestral population of some Native Americans, and also a huge stretch of northern Eurasians.

The European component also has changed quite significantly, along with the complete addition of several Asian components.

Once GEDmatch is back up, I will use their highly regarded calculators, for more scientific insight into the human journey.

You cannot make that assumption because different atDNA tests have different samples and methodologies. In looking at your breakdown there is not much difference between your NA percentage in MyO v. the Gedmatch utility that you site. I highly doubt that Finland is being confused with NA ancestry.

Here is a breakdown on why I am concluding this: For example, IBD (identity by descent) and PCA plots are the two best ways to identify ethnicity. IBD is assumed from a sample who claims to have 4 grandparents from the same "ethnicity". In the case of FTDNA they have plenty of Finnish samples that are IBD, but not Native American samples, those are quite thin. So we cannot make that assumption. Each one of the utilities at GedMatch has its own sampling database and methodology, so it is not a like comparison to MyOrigins. In either case, you have a difference of 1% between the two, which happens to total the amount of the Finnish component, but that is more likely to be coincidental than fact. If not, then you would have to say that everyone who has the "Finnish" component actually has NA ancestry. That is extremely unlikely, particularly in the case of the hundreds of actual Finns that are in the database.

I have similar admixture to yours so I have made similar assumptions that you are making now, it's natural to do so. Try and send your raw data for analysis to someone like Davidski for a full analysis (for a fee). He can break your ethnicity down very nicely using IBD/IBS and PCA plotting. He also has a sizeable database including Native Americans. He will also analyze your x chromosome.

[MeteorMan]

Alright, thanks. Each day I learn a little bit more about how this stuff works. I will look into what other options are available.

[Armando]

Having just received the my origins results, as my first autosomal ethnicity test, the results seemed to look about right, for what was expected. See below.

Europe 57%: 24% British Isles; 19% west and central; 12% Scandinavian; 2% Finland and Northern Siberia
Africa 43%: 41% West African; 2% East African
New World 1%: 1% Native American

Although, there is an anomaly, in that the total adds up to 101%! I also ran the raw data through Dodecad Globe 13 and received the following -

Northern European: 28.52%
Mediterranean: 18.73%
West Asian: 5.15%
South West Asian: 1.57%
South Asian: 2.18%
East Asian: 0%
Siberian: 0.02%
Arctic: 0.15%
Australasian: 0.08%
West African: 37.65%
East African: 2.49%
PaleoAfrican: 1.43%
Amerindian: 2.04%

So, as is, myorigins seems to be lumping Native American into Finland and Northern Siberia category. I believe this is due to the fairly recent Mal'ta boy DNA, which was found to be part of an ancestral population of some Native Americans, and also a huge stretch of northern Eurasians.

The European component also has changed quite significantly, along with the complete addition of several Asian components.

Once GEDmatch is back up, I will use their highly regarded calculators, for more scientific insight into the human journey.

I highly doubt that Finland is being confused with NA ancestry.

Here is a breakdown on why I am concluding this: For example, IBD (identity by descent) and PCA plots are the two best ways to identify ethnicity. IBD is assumed from a sample who claims to have 4 grandparents from the same "ethnicity". In the case of FTDNA they have plenty of Finnish samples that are IBD, but not Native American samples, those are quite thin. So we cannot make that assumption. Each one of the utilities at GedMatch has its own sampling database and methodology, so it is not a like comparison to MyOrigins. In either case, you have a difference of 1% between the two, which happens to total the amount of the Finnish component, but that is more likely to be coincidental than fact. If not, then you would have to say that everyone who has the "Finnish" component actually has NA ancestry. That is extremely unlikely, particularly in the case of the hundreds of actual Finns that are in the database.

I have similar admixture to yours so I have made similar assumptions that you are making now, it's natural to do so. Try and send your raw data for analysis to someone like Davidski for a full analysis (for a fee). He can break your ethnicity down very nicely using IBD/IBS and PCA plotting. He also has a sizeable database including Native Americans. He will also analyze your x chromosome.

A reason for the difference between Globe13 and MyOrigins is due to the fact that when they made MyOrigins they removed Maya, Pima and Columbian as reference populations. These are populations that most other calculators use such Globe13, Eurogenes, 23andme, AncestryDNA and I assume Doug McDonald's. MyOrigins only kept Karitiana and Surui and all of the SNPs found in Maya, Pima and Columbian populations, but not in Karitiana and Surui, were reassigned to other groups and in some cases this is Finland and Northern Siberia. For the reference populations see https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...s-methodology/ If you notice Mal'ta boy is not used as a source so he has nothing to do with the difference.

There is a very large number of people that had significant amounts of Native American that were very close to each other in different calculators, up to 50%, but now have less NA but much more East Asian and in many cases Finland and Northern Siberia in their results.

You do not have to say that everyone who has the "Finnish" component actually has NA ancestry in order to explain many of those people all of the sudden showing up with Finnish and Northern Siberian. The explanation is extremely simple - Northern Siberians and the Native Americans share autosomal SNP markers since Native Americans descend from Siberians from when Siberians went to America over the Bering Strait. With Maya, Pima and Columbian populations out as source populations MyOrigins can't assign the SNPs found in those populations and your results to Native Americans so they are assigned to other populations. This does not mean that your 1% Finnish and Northern Siberian is definitely from your Native American ancestry but it could be.

The source populations that Dodecad globe13 and Eurogenes are very similar. You can see the spreadsheets of their source populations online. They also use populations from Human Genome Diversity Project and International HapMap Project, among others, just as MyOrigins did and other calculators do.

Dodecad globe13 - Click on spreadsheet at http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2012/10/...alculator.html

Eurogenes - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...WUUY4Z0E#gid=0

A comparison of 9 people's NA results - https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4wiwm6rhs...omparison.xlsx