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  • martayers
    replied
    Middle Eastern/Turkish DNA in Descendants of Early Settlers of the Southeast

    Why do many people in the Southern Piedmont have small portions of Middle Eastern [Turkish] DNA in their autosomal makeup? From Richard Thornton: "Most likely the Middle Eastern DNA comes from captured Turkish galley slaves and soldiers. Most of the lower ranks of the Turkish army and navy were filled with Christians. Most were not Roman Catholics however. So if captured by the Spanish in the many wars between the Ottoman Empire and Christians the Orthodox Christians could not live in Spain or Spanish colonies. Therefore they were dropped off on the coast of North America." Descent from Barbary pirates visiting the Carolinas is also a consideration. My family was in Virginia and North Carolina in the 1600's, and has been in the Southeastern Piedmont of Northeast Georgia for around 200 years. My paternal aunt, maternal uncle, children, cousins and I have Middle Eastern DNA recently reclassified as Turkish by FTDNA. My aunt and I also have small amounts of South/ Central DNA possibly from gypsies sent to Virginia in the 1600's and 1700's, or from Eastern European/German lines. A less likely possible explanation for the South Asian DNA is Native American, although most of my lines lived near the boundary of the Old Cherokee Nation in Northeast Georgia.

    Leave a comment:


  • benboy
    replied
    My old FT result was 72.82% European 27.18 my new results are attached bellow in a photo and my Dr McDonald results are pasted below
    Dose it all add up to anyone?


    Most likely fit is 90.3% (+- 2.4%) Europe (various subcontinents)
    and 9.7% (+- 2.4%) S. Asia (various subcontinents)

    The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
    most likely at the top
    Hungary= 0.916 Sindhi= 0.084 or
    Hungary= 0.929 N_India= 0.071 or
    Hungary= 0.904 Pathan= 0.096 or
    Hungary= 0.938 S_India= 0.062 or
    French= 0.895 N_India= 0.105 or
    French= 0.878 Sindhi= 0.122 or
    French= 0.907 S_India= 0.093 or
    French= 0.860 Pathan= 0.140


    a better custom fit is
    English 0.6330 Romania 0.2664 Sindhi 0.1005 or
    English 0.6339 Romania 0.2841 N_India 0.0820 or
    Germany 0.5557 Spain 0.3208 Sindhi 0.1235 or
    Germany 0.5269 Spain 0.3340 Pathan 0.1392 or
    English 0.6204 Romania 0.2672 Pathan 0.1124 or
    French 0.5333 Germany 0.3437 Sindhi 0.1230 or
    French 0.7413 Lithuania 0.1201 Pathan 0.1386 or
    English 0.5376 Hungary 0.3512 Sindhi 0.1112 or
    French 0.7491 Lithuania 0.1286 Sindhi 0.1222

    which fits what you expect perfectly!

    Doug McDonald
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Osiris
    replied
    My uncle's Family Finder just came through in record time. Batched 4/24 and published 5/7 so in 13 days.

    His My Origins is 99% European and 2% Central/South Asian so a little rounding error there. Which works pretty good.

    What's funny though is that Population Finder is still available. Under the Raw Data I can download a printable version of the Pop. Finder. There he's 92.48 Western European and 7.52% Middle East.

    I suppose soon enough that will go away and I guess they have to rename this forum too.

    Leave a comment:


  • EastAnglian
    replied
    Originally posted by Ftdnauser View Post
    Right?

    Here, let me show you a comparison of the Irish descendant I was talking about and their 2nd cousin relative. So, until the last generation, this persons family has a Spanish descendant paper trail, back to 1700's. And it's not just one line traced, but they married other Spanish descendant families in the area. And then the generation before, this persons mother married a full blooded Irish man. And yet here is the results

    European - European Coastal Plain (which is Central Europe (Germany, France, Austria, etc)
    Now, being an Irish descendant, you would think that it would show instead, or at least include European Coastal Islands, which is Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. But it doesn't show this. (Note: the males Y DNA sample is Irish)

    New World - Native American (Which you would expect)
    Asian - expected because of the Mexican population admixture
    African - also expected because of admixture

    Middle Eastern - none
    But that's another kicker.....they should have at least some Mediterranean Basin, or Morrocan Coastland, or even Eastern Afro Asiatic because of the Iberian admixture their family has. But they show none at all.

    Now, their 2nd cousin, who shares the same 1st Great Grandparents (who was Spanish/Mexican descendant proven with paper trail) shows a strikingly different portrayal.

    European - European Coastal Islands
    But absolutely no European Coastal Plain, which is the exact opposite. They share the same recent DNA, so they should both at least share the same European on some level, but they don't.

    New World - Native American (expected, and they both share it)
    Asian - (expected, they both share it)
    African - none at all (But should have it because of the population he's from, AND because his cousin has it).

    Middle Eastern - has Mediterranean Basin, AND Morrocan Coastal Plain, which is expected of a Mexican with Iberian descent, BUT AGAIN, his cousin has none of this.

    Neither shows Jewish Diaspora

    So in summary, they both only share Asian and Native American, and while they both have European, it's two different subsets. Only one has Middle Eastern, which is expected of both due to their Iberian descent, and only one has African (which could also be expected of both due to Mexican heritage). They both have a paper trail to Sephardic Jewish ancestors, and both show Ashkenazi SNP's at 4 other companies/places and before the change, the FTDNA results showed Middle Eastern Jewish specifically. But now, neither shows Jewish.

    And this is just ONE of the multiple discrepancies I've seen.
    Have the two done a comparison on Gedmatch to see what percentages they get on there?, that would prove quite interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ftdnauser
    replied
    Right?

    Here, let me show you a comparison of the Irish descendant I was talking about and their 2nd cousin relative. So, until the last generation, this persons family has a Spanish descendant paper trail, back to 1700's. And it's not just one line traced, but they married other Spanish descendant families in the area. And then the generation before, this persons mother married a full blooded Irish man. And yet here is the results

    European - European Coastal Plain (which is Central Europe (Germany, France, Austria, etc)
    Now, being an Irish descendant, you would think that it would show instead, or at least include European Coastal Islands, which is Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. But it doesn't show this. (Note: the males Y DNA sample is Irish)

    New World - Native American (Which you would expect)
    Asian - expected because of the Mexican population admixture
    African - also expected because of admixture

    Middle Eastern - none
    But that's another kicker.....they should have at least some Mediterranean Basin, or Morrocan Coastland, or even Eastern Afro Asiatic because of the Iberian admixture their family has. But they show none at all.

    Now, their 2nd cousin, who shares the same 1st Great Grandparents (who was Spanish/Mexican descendant proven with paper trail) shows a strikingly different portrayal.

    European - European Coastal Islands
    But absolutely no European Coastal Plain, which is the exact opposite. They share the same recent DNA, so they should both at least share the same European on some level, but they don't.

    New World - Native American (expected, and they both share it)
    Asian - (expected, they both share it)
    African - none at all (But should have it because of the population he's from, AND because his cousin has it).

    Middle Eastern - has Mediterranean Basin, AND Morrocan Coastal Plain, which is expected of a Mexican with Iberian descent, BUT AGAIN, his cousin has none of this.

    Neither shows Jewish Diaspora

    So in summary, they both only share Asian and Native American, and while they both have European, it's two different subsets. Only one has Middle Eastern, which is expected of both due to their Iberian descent, and only one has African (which could also be expected of both due to Mexican heritage). They both have a paper trail to Sephardic Jewish ancestors, and both show Ashkenazi SNP's at 4 other companies/places and before the change, the FTDNA results showed Middle Eastern Jewish specifically. But now, neither shows Jewish.

    And this is just ONE of the multiple discrepancies I've seen.
    Last edited by Ftdnauser; 7 May 2014, 02:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MoberlyDrake
    replied
    I have a false positive of 10% for one of my double cousins. It should be Middle Eastern (Arab conquest of Sicily). If you add her Jewish Diaspora to her Middle Eastern, you get a value that would be in agreement with other family members:

    My father
    36% Middle Eastern

    Me
    19% Middle Eastern

    Double cousin A
    19% Middle Eastern

    Double cousin B
    11% Middle Eastern
    10% Jewish Diaspora

    Leave a comment:


  • josh w.
    replied
    Originally posted by Ftdnauser View Post
    Yep. Highly conflicting results. I see people who didn't have Jewish before, here or anywhere else, now having a Jewish Diaspora listing. I'm also seeing varying degrees of discrepancy. Like a mother who has Eastern Afro-Asiatic,and no Morrocan Coastland, and a son who has Morrocan Coastland with no Eastern Afro Asiatic. I've also seen people with @ 10% Jewish Diaspora, and yet both parents show none. Which would be highly impossible, unless they were adopted, which in this case, they weren't. I'm also seeing things like 3rd cousins with completely different results from their relations, even though they both come from the same population subset. And, among others, I'm seeing things like Y DNA Cohens, known Jews, and people with paper trails to Inquisition Jews, now showing absolutely no Jewish Diaspora whatsoever. I realize that MyOrigins is in beta, but up until Tuesday, Population Finder was listed as beta since day one, and yet the results never changed. Hopefully they will fix things. I mean seriously, I've got an Irish descendant that no longer shows European Coastal a Islands, but instead shows Central European.
    Interesting. NYMark has noted a false negative problem with the Jewish Diaspora cluster. Now you note a false positive problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • JuanCarlos
    replied
    Originally posted by Ftdnauser View Post
    Yep. Highly conflicting results. I see people who didn't have Jewish before, here or anywhere else, now having a Jewish Diaspora listing. I'm also seeing varying degrees of discrepancy. Like a mother who has Eastern Afro-Asiatic,and no Morrocan Coastland, and a son who has Morrocan Coastland with no Eastern Afro Asiatic. I've also seen people with @ 10% Jewish Diaspora, and yet both parents show none. Which would be highly impossible, unless they were adopted, which in this case, they weren't. I'm also seeing things like 3rd cousins with completely different results from their relations, even though they both come from the same population subset. And, among others, I'm seeing things like Y DNA Cohens, known Jews, and people with paper trails to Inquisition Jews, now showing absolutely no Jewish Diaspora whatsoever. I realize that MyOrigins is in beta, but up until Tuesday, Population Finder was listed as beta since day one, and yet the results never changed. Hopefully they will fix things. I mean seriously, I've got an Irish descendant that no longer shows European Coastal a Islands, but instead shows Central European.
    It's good you are taking notice of all of those discrepancies. I had no idea they were that common.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ftdnauser
    replied
    Yep. Highly conflicting results. I see people who didn't have Jewish before, here or anywhere else, now having a Jewish Diaspora listing. I'm also seeing varying degrees of discrepancy. Like a mother who has Eastern Afro-Asiatic,and no Morrocan Coastland, and a son who has Morrocan Coastland with no Eastern Afro Asiatic. I've also seen people with @ 10% Jewish Diaspora, and yet both parents show none. Which would be highly impossible, unless they were adopted, which in this case, they weren't. I'm also seeing things like 3rd cousins with completely different results from their relations, even though they both come from the same population subset. And, among others, I'm seeing things like Y DNA Cohens, known Jews, and people with paper trails to Inquisition Jews, now showing absolutely no Jewish Diaspora whatsoever. I realize that MyOrigins is in beta, but up until Tuesday, Population Finder was listed as beta since day one, and yet the results never changed. Hopefully they will fix things. I mean seriously, I've got an Irish descendant that no longer shows European Coastal a Islands, but instead shows Central European.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    Originally posted by maplegirl View Post
    . . .

    2) I know that women tend to inherit more autosomal dna from their maternal side but father's side is hardly represented which I find odd . . .
    We all have 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46 chromosomes. We inherit half of our chromosomes from our fathers and half from our mothers, so we get an equal amount from each parent. So, 23 chromosomes come from your father, and 23 chromosomes come from your mother. One pair comprises the sex chromosomes; the remaining 22 pairs are the autosomal chromosomes.

    We get an equal amount of autosomal dna from each parent.

    Leave a comment:


  • maplegirl
    replied
    Confused with MyOrigin results

    Yep, I'm confused. Showing 95% European (85% European Coastal Island, 5% Trans-Ural Peneplain) and 5% Jewish diaspora. Now my parents have two distinct heritages: maternal (Irish) with a documented genealogy going back to the early 1800s and paternal (French) with a documented genealogy to the 1600s with a few documented Native American ancestors.

    1) Native American ancestry showed up on 23andme but not on My Origins. Not a big deal.

    2) I know that women tend to inherit more autosomal dna from their maternal side but father's side is hardly represented which I find odd. My "bubble" barely touches France. I do have documented Iberian ancestry which showed up on Population Finder and 23andme but nothing showed up on My Origins.

    3) I suspected I also had Sephardic ancestry but again, nothing shows up for Iberia but Jewish Diaspora showed up. This is surprising because nothing showed up before nor even on 23andme that gave me an indication. And I don't seem to have any genetic matches with Jewish Diaspora, only 1 match, that's it.

    4) My mother's entire side is Irish but I did manage to determine that the mtDNA line seemed to have originated in England, at least by 1600. Genealogical info had the line as Ulster-Scots. But my "bubble" shows very little "Irish" and the darkest colours are in England and Scotland, which is again surprising because I have few matches that have origins in England - most are Irish (maybe 50 percent) and Scottish (50% perhaps). So, it's strange that Ireland doesn't seem to be more represented as well.

    So, this is all very surprising I must admit. I'm aware that one's dna doesn't necessarily correlate with one's genealogical data but I expected more of a correlation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stezinec
    replied
    Originally posted by gerlyons View Post
    If I remember right from the webinar, you will only be able to see matches 3rd to 5th cousin and closer but you won't be able to see their breakdown.
    Right, so completely useless then. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything better from FTDNA. They make 23andme look good, somehow.

    Leave a comment:


  • gerlyons
    replied
    Originally posted by Stezinec View Post
    I can see mine too

    Has anyone figured out how to see the MyOrigins results for their matches in more detail? All I can find is my top 8 matches, and it doesn't break it down subregionally.
    If I remember right from the webinar, you will only be able to see matches 3rd to 5th cousin and closer but you won't be able to see their breakdown.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stezinec
    replied
    I can see mine too

    Has anyone figured out how to see the MyOrigins results for their matches in more detail? All I can find is my top 8 matches, and it doesn't break it down subregionally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lincoln
    replied
    The change has happened. I clicked on my page, and "Population Finder" is gone. It is replaced with the new thing: "My Origins."

    Leave a comment:

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