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  • Strange result in PF

    Hallo forum members,

    I am Petra from Cologne and quite new in all DNA topics, therefore please apologize my perhaps stupid question. Besides my English knowledge is quiet simple and I wish you understand my question.

    Yesterday I received the FF/PF results of my grandmother Oma (mother of mother Kit nr. 316149), which are in comparison to mine (kit E10388)very astonishing to me:

    Oma has: European /Orcadian (97,92% / Err: ±0,07% ) and Africa (Yoruba, Bantu Kenya, Bantu South Africa, Mandenka) (2,08%/Err: ±0,07%)

    I have: Europe (Western European) Orcadian (93,02% ±2,27%)
    Middle East Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite (6,98% ±2,27%)

    Because Oma is my direct maternal Ancestor we both have Haplogroup H1b1-T16362C and we both look very mediocre German with fair skin. The middle east in my PF results I thought it could be because of a possibly jewish ancestor, whom I could not find through appaer trail results till now. I thought he/she comes from my Oma´s line, but with this PF results, possibly not.

    My questions now are:

    I wonder now, how a northwest Europäen "relatively young" haplogroup as H1b1-T16362C is, can trace probably old ancient african origins?
    Were is my mistake in thinking?
    Are the 2,08% African just a "Grundrauschen" ~ statistical unaccuracy?

    On gedmatch admixture I got these results:

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 38.72
    2 Baltic 36.55
    3 West_Med 11.08
    4 East_Med 7.21
    5 West_Asian 2.26
    6 South_Asian 1.63
    7 Red_Sea 1.35
    8 Amerindian 0.63
    9 Sub-Saharan 0.31
    10 Oceanian 0.26

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Swedish 8.69
    2 Hungarian 8.89
    3 Austrian 9.05
    4 Polish 9.46
    5 Southwest_Finnish 10.21
    6 Swedish 11.51
    7 German 11.93
    8 Ukrainian_West 11.94
    9 Ukrainian 12.11
    10 Norwegian 12.94
    11 Dutch 13.11
    12 Belorussian 14.6
    13 Finnish 15.11
    14 Danish 15.56
    15 Estonian 15.57
    16 Russian 15.64
    17 Southeast_English 16.08
    18 Ukrainian_Northeast 16.14
    19 Orcadian 16.15
    20 Serbian 16.73

    Any ideas and help will be appreciated. Thank you :-)

    Kind regards,
    Petra

  • #2
    Petra if you are German I think your PF results are trying to place you in Germany. I know this is very confusing and I have had to think about this many times to feel that I have a handle on it. From what I can gather if you only have the Orcadian result and nothing else for Western Europe, and if your Middle Eastern result is NOT getting up to near almost 15%, then it is just trying to plot you on the map to where you belong. See here. http://dna-explained.com/2012/09/09/...ical-analysis/

    Population Finder is supposed to be updated soon. For me it can't be soon enough. I hope that it is much better than the current one. I am a simple person, and I don't like to have to think about my DNA admixture as points on a map. Just tell me what my ancestry is.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Táltos View Post
      From what I can gather if you only have the Orcadian result and nothing else for Western Europe, and if your Middle Eastern result is NOT getting up to near almost 15%, then it is just trying to plot you on the map to where you belong.

      Population Finder is supposed to be updated soon. For me it can't be soon enough. .
      Hallo Táltos,

      ja, that´s true. Dr. Mc Donald already wrote me, that my possible ancestors would like come from south-west Germany. In combination of all the paper trail work I´ve done, it might be true. 4 Grandparents with ancestors from different places (todays West-Poland, Friesland (German/Dutch), Rhineland (West-Germany) one g-parent with mix from France) that´s possible.

      DNA genealogy is still in "child shoes" as we would say in German... But the african ancestry PF result in H1b1-T16362C of Oma is really astonishing. When I did the admixture tool of gedmatch with both of our kits, the percentages of our populations were quiet the same. Just Oma has more Baltic than me. And I still wonder, why the PF doesn´t show for her a bit Middle Eastern percentage?

      Thank you for your answer,
      Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        Strange result in PF

        Originally posted by Petra View Post
        Hallo Táltos,

        ja, that´s true. Dr. Mc Donald already wrote me, that my possible ancestors would like come from south-west Germany. In combination of all the paper trail work I´ve done, it might be true. 4 Grandparents with ancestors from different places (todays West-Poland, Friesland (German/Dutch), Rhineland (West-Germany) one g-parent with mix from France) that´s possible.

        DNA genealogy is still in "child shoes" as we would say in German... But the african ancestry PF result in H1b1-T16362C of Oma is really astonishing. When I did the admixture tool of gedmatch with both of our kits, the percentages of our populations were quiet the same. Just Oma has more Baltic than me. And I still wonder, why the PF doesn´t show for her a bit Middle Eastern percentage?

        Thank you for your answer,
        Petra
        Tena koe Petra,

        I love that phrase "child shoes" I am not yet into the Family Finder as yet, although there are quite a few of my Project who have done theirs. The question would appear to be, not so much why does Oma show the African side but rather, why don't you. If Oma is your maternal grandmother then you should be the same I would think. Of course I am aware that you both have the same haplogroup so I guess there is a reason for the discrepancy between the two of you from some other source/reason. My Project mainly have Irish descendants but we actually have three German surnames carrying our Y-DNA too. Northern Germany though...i.e. Mecklenburg. By the way, can you tell me what Oma means in English please? I used to ride in a speed boat, as a kid in New Zealand, and it was called Oma. If it is not Maori it may be German. Thanks.

        Haere,


        Warren.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Petra View Post
          Oma has: European /Orcadian (97,92% / Err: ±0,07% ) and Africa (Yoruba, Bantu Kenya, Bantu South Africa, Mandenka) (2,08%/Err: ±0,07%)

          I have: Europe (Western European) Orcadian (93,02% ±2,27%)
          Middle East Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite (6,98% ±2,27%)
          Put bluntly, Population Finder has been worthless up until now. Many (most) northern Europeans simply get 95% Orcadian and 5% Something Bizarre. For example, many people of Polish ancestry (including myself) get 95% Orcadian, 5% South Asian (Southeast Indian, North Indian).

          We await the promised update to Population Finder.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lgmayka View Post
            Put bluntly, Population Finder has been worthless up until now. Many (most) northern Europeans simply get 95% Orcadian and 5% Something Bizarre. For example, many people of Polish ancestry (including myself) get 95% Orcadian, 5% South Asian (Southeast Indian, North Indian).

            We await the promised update to Population Finder.
            Between 1600 and 1650 40,000 Scots moved to Poland." "Scottish emigration in the 17th and 18th centuries" by Smout,Landsman and Devine.
            How many Polish moved to Scotland during the Bronze-Age?!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mokurai View Post
              Tena koe Petra,

              I love that phrase "child shoes" I am not yet into the Family Finder as yet, although there are quite a few of my Project who have done theirs. The question would appear to be, not so much why does Oma show the African side but rather, why don't you. If Oma is your maternal grandmother then you should be the same I would think. Of course I am aware that you both have the same haplogroup so I guess there is a reason for the discrepancy between the two of you from some other source/reason. My Project mainly have Irish descendants but we actually have three German surnames carrying our Y-DNA too. Northern Germany though...i.e. Mecklenburg. By the way, can you tell me what Oma means in English please? I used to ride in a speed boat, as a kid in New Zealand, and it was called Oma. If it is not Maori it may be German. Thanks.

              Haere,


              Warren.
              Oma is grandma in German.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mokurai View Post
                Tena koe Petra,

                I love that phrase "child shoes" I am not yet into the Family Finder as yet, although there are quite a few of my Project who have done theirs. The question would appear to be, not so much why does Oma show the African side but rather, why don't you. If Oma is your maternal grandmother then you should be the same I would think. Of course I am aware that you both have the same haplogroup so I guess there is a reason for the discrepancy between the two of you from some other source/reason. My Project mainly have Irish descendants but we actually have three German surnames carrying our Y-DNA too. Northern Germany though...i.e. Mecklenburg. By the way, can you tell me what Oma means in English please? I used to ride in a speed boat, as a kid in New Zealand, and it was called Oma. If it is not Maori it may be German. Thanks.

                Haere,


                Warren.
                Oma in german is Grandma in english :-)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Polish Scots?

                  [QUOTE=1798;381628]Between 1600 and 1650 40,000 Scots moved to Poland." "Scottish emigration in the 17th and 18th centuries" by Smout,Landsman and Devine.
                  How many Polish moved to Scotland during the Bronze-Age?!!![/QUOTE

                  Grandma in English? Wonder if Mr McGreal knew that! After all his boat was classed as the seventh fastest runabout in New Zealand.

                  Well...my maternal grandfather was Scottish...GOVAN ... and I am told their name was taken by Indian families in India, from when they were Soldiers over there. However, we do have a Polish guy on our Project, besides the three Northern Germans I mentioned. All with our I1 haplogroup Y-DNA.

                  Thanks.


                  Haere,


                  Warren.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mokurai View Post
                    Tena koe Petra,

                    I love that phrase "child shoes" I am not yet into the Family Finder as yet, although there are quite a few of my Project who have done theirs. The question would appear to be, not so much why does Oma show the African side but rather, why don't you. If Oma is your maternal grandmother then you should be the same I would think. ....

                    ....By the way, can you tell me what Oma means in English please? I used to ride in a speed boat, as a kid in New Zealand, and it was called Oma. If it is not Maori it may be German. Thanks.

                    Haere,


                    Warren.
                    Hallo Warren,

                    oh, I thought the expression "child shoes" would also be used in English. Now I learned it is not. ;-)

                    Meanwhile I found out that I mixed in my "child shoes" knowledge times and meanings of Population Finder results with mtDNA. For sure it´s is possible that I can have another mix in PF than Oma (=grand mother as already other forists posted) even with the same Haplogroup.
                    The reason is simple: I got another PF mix from the genes of my maternal grandfather (=Opa: perhaps you also know a boat named like that? ;-) or from my fathers ancestors.

                    Best wishes,
                    Petra

                    Comment

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