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  • Jewish ancestry?

    I have 1841 matches at family finder . 1000 matches seems to be Jewish. They have Jewish ancestral surnames. I was a little surprised, that I have so many Jewish matches. I have a total of 250 x-matches. At least 50 of them are jewish on all lines.
    Can somebody tell me how many generations I have had a Jewish ancestor? I especially care about the maternal line because the religion says it passed trough the maternal line. Know ancestry is Northwestern Europe

  • #2
    If you have a total of 1841 matches, rather than 18410 (and you are allowing FTDNA to show matches for distant and speculative), then you are not strongly Ashkenazi. Jewish. Beyond that, somebody else will have to help.

    Comment


    • #3
      Dolfinarius, what does the MyOrigins 2.0 screen propose for your percentage of Ashkenazic Jewish ancestry, if any? That could give a clue.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by loobster View Post
        If you have a total of 1841 matches, rather than 18410 (and you are allowing FTDNA to show matches for distant and speculative), then you are not strongly Ashkenazi. Jewish. Beyond that, somebody else will have to help.

        1000 Jewish matches. Most 5th cousin-remote cousin

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by khazaria View Post
          Dolfinarius, what does the MyOrigins 2.0 screen propose for your percentage of Ashkenazic Jewish ancestry, if any? That could give a clue.
          I transferred from Myheritage. I can not unlock, no CC , only Ideal
          Myheritage :
          71.1 % Northwestern Europe
          26.3% English
          1.5 % Irish, scottish , Welsh
          1.1% Greek

          I do not triangulete with Greek people, but I triangulate with 100% Jewish people ?

          Gedmatch: I have 3000 matches. 1500 matches seems to be partial or fully Jewish.

          Now when I use chromosome painting on gedmatch to look at these matching segments they are painted mostly green (east med, west asia) or light green (European jewish) or west med. or middle eastern.

          Eurogenes 13:

          Admix results
          # Population Percent
          1 North_Atlantic 47.05
          2 Baltic 23.04
          3 West_Med 12.33
          4 East_Med 9.1
          5 West_Asian 5.59
          6 South_Asian 1.35
          7 Sub-Saharan 0.58
          8 Northeast_African 0.37
          9 Amerindian 0.31
          10 Oceanian 0.27
          11 East_Asian 0.02
          Single population :
          # Population (source) Distance
          1 West_German 4.42
          2 South_Dutch 4.48
          3 Southeast_English 4.98
          4 North_German 6.17
          5 Danish 6.51
          6 North_Dutch 6.82
          7 Orcadian 7.03
          8 Southwest_English 7.54
          9 Irish 8.13
          10 West_Scottish 8.34
          11 Norwegian 9.15
          12 French 9.48
          13 Swedish 10.3
          14 Austrian 10.91
          15 East_German 12.14
          16 North_Swedish 14.99
          17 Hungarian 15.07
          18 Spanish_Cataluna 16.87
          19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.2
          20 Portuguese 18.3
          # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
          1 87.5% Danish + 12.5% Italian_Jewish @ 2.19
          2 92.6% Southeast_English + 7.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.21
          3 81.6% Danish + 18.4% Tuscan @ 2.27
          4 84.5% Danish + 15.5% West_Sicilian @ 2.39
          5 87.9% Danish + 12.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.4
          6 92.9% Southeast_English + 7.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.4
          7 87.6% Danish + 12.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.45
          8 93.1% Southeast_English + 6.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.5
          9 92.8% Southeast_English + 7.2% Palestinian @ 2.52
          10 93.1% Southeast_English + 6.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.52
          11 93% Southeast_English + 7% Assyrian @ 2.55
          12 92.7% Southeast_English + 7.3% Jordanian @ 2.55
          13 88.6% Danish + 11.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.57
          14 92.5% Southeast_English + 7.5% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.57
          15 87.1% North_Dutch + 12.9% Italian_Jewish @ 2.57
          16 79% Danish + 21% North_Italian @ 2.57
          17 89.9% Southeast_English + 10.1% Ashkenazi @ 2.58
          18 86.5% Danish + 13.5% South_Italian @ 2.61
          19 93.1% Southeast_English + 6.9% Samaritan @ 2.63
          20 88.7% Danish + 11.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.67

          4-oracle
          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          1 Danish + Southeast_English + West_German + West_German @ 3.110943
          2 Danish + Danish + Danish + North_Italian @ 3.118066
          3 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German + West_German @ 3.189354
          4 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 3.233428
          5 Danish + Danish + French + West_German @ 3.248377
          6 North_German + Southeast_English + West_German + West_German @ 3.266783
          7 Danish + Danish + North_Dutch + North_Italian @ 3.276352
          8 Danish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Tuscan @ 3.322235
          9 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_German + West_German @ 3.325137
          10 Danish + Danish + Norwegian + Tuscan @ 3.330710
          11 Danish + Norwegian + Tuscan + West_Scottish @ 3.399041
          12 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Italian + Norwegian @ 3.423835
          13 Norwegian + Norwegian + Tuscan + West_Scottish @ 3.435019
          14 Danish + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_German @ 3.436313
          15 Danish + West_German + West_German + West_German @ 3.439549
          16 Danish + French + North_German + West_German @ 3.443100
          17 Danish + French + North_Dutch + West_German @ 3.443116
          18 Danish + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Tuscan @ 3.461554
          19 North_German + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_German @ 3.473302
          20 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + North_Italian @ 3.477378


          K36

          Population
          Amerindian -
          Arabian -
          Armenian 1.56 Pct
          Basque 2.68 Pct
          Central_African -
          Central_Euro 8.70 Pct
          East_African -
          East_Asian -
          East_Balkan 1.70 Pct
          East_Central_Asian -
          East_Central_Euro 2.22 Pct
          East_Med 2.66 Pct
          Eastern_Euro 5.00 Pct
          Fennoscandian 10.89 Pct
          French 4.74 Pct
          Iberian 13.22 Pct
          Indo-Chinese -
          Italian 5.19 Pct
          Malayan -
          Near_Eastern 0.96 Pct
          North_African 0.34 Pct
          North_Atlantic 12.98 Pct
          North_Caucasian 2.33 Pct
          North_Sea 23.05 Pct
          Northeast_African -
          Oceanian -
          Omotic 0.06 Pct
          Pygmy -
          Siberian -
          South_Asian -
          South_Central_Asian -
          South_Chinese -
          Volga-Ural -
          West_African -
          West_Caucasian -
          West_Med 1.70 Pc
          JTEST

          Admix results
          # Population Percent
          1 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 27.42
          2 ATLANTIC 24.91
          3 EAST_EURO 11.11
          4 SOUTH_BALTIC 10.74
          5 WEST_MED 10.47
          6 EAST_MED 9.38
          7 ASHKENAZI 3.42
          8 WEST_ASIAN 1.87
          9 WEST_AFRICAN 0.52
          10 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.16
          Mixed mode :
          # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
          1 90.7% English + 9.3% Druze @ 3.21
          2 75.4% DK + 24.6% Tuscan @ 3.74
          3 91.6% English + 8.4% Samaritan @ 4.02
          4 87.4% English + 12.6% GR @ 4.07
          5 92.4% NL + 7.6% Druze @ 4.09
          6 88.4% DK + 11.6% Druze @ 4.15
          7 82.9% DK + 17.1% GR @ 4.3
          8 87.3% English + 12.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.3
          9 83% English + 17% Tuscan @ 4.38
          10 82.2% DK + 17.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.4
          11 73.2% DK + 26.8% North_Italian @ 4.4
          12 91.9% English + 8.1% Assyrian @ 4.43
          13 92.1% English + 7.9% Mandean @ 4.44
          14 90.3% Cornish + 9.7% Druze @ 4.49
          15 91.9% English + 8.1% IQ @ 4.49
          16 94.9% West_&_Central_German + 5.1% Druze @ 4.6
          17 85.3% NL + 14.7% Tuscan @ 4.61
          18 88.7% West_&_Central_German + 11.3% Tuscan @ 4.61
          19 79.2% English + 20.8% Serbian @ 4.63
          20 93.4% NL + 6.6% Samaritan @ 4.64
          4-oracle :
          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          1 DK + DK + DK + Tuscan @ 4.285102
          2 DK + DK + English + Tuscan @ 4.365251
          3 DK + DK + Scottish + Tuscan @ 4.420509
          4 DK + DK + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 4.510793
          5 Cornish + DK + DK + Tuscan @ 4.551576
          6 DK + DK + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 4.592678
          7 DK + DK + NL + Tuscan @ 4.593926
          8 DK + English + NO + Tuscan @ 4.636546
          9 DK + DK + IE + Tuscan @ 4.643208
          10 DK + DK + NO + Tuscan @ 4.690386
          11 DK + NO + Scottish + Tuscan @ 4.728082
          12 DK + English + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.755507
          13 English + English + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.755698
          14 Cornish + DK + NO + Tuscan @ 4.766032
          15 DK + English + English + Tuscan @ 4.786236
          16 DK + English + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.796332
          17 DK + English + Scottish + Tuscan @ 4.819568
          18 DK + Scottish + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.824754
          19 DK + DK + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.841150
          20 DK + NO + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 4.841978

          EUTEST :
          # Population Percent
          1 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 27.66
          2 ATLANTIC 25.36
          3 EAST_EURO 11.35
          4 WEST_MED 11.02
          5 SOUTH_BALTIC 10.76
          6 EAST_MED 10.58
          7 WEST_ASIAN 2.4
          8 WEST_AFRICAN 0.57
          9 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.28

          Comment


          • #6
            mixed mode :
            # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
            1 90.8% English + 9.2% Druze @ 3.24
            2 74.9% DK + 25.1% Tuscan @ 3.84
            3 91.9% English + 8.1% Samaritan @ 4.04
            4 87.6% English + 12.4% GR @ 4.05
            5 87.2% English + 12.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.14
            6 92.3% NL + 7.7% Druze @ 4.2
            7 87% English + 13% AJ @ 4.21
            8 83.1% English + 16.9% Tuscan @ 4.33
            9 88.2% DK + 11.8% Druze @ 4.35
            10 81.7% DK + 18.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.36
            11 92.2% English + 7.8% Mandean @ 4.42
            12 92% English + 8% Assyrian @ 4.43
            13 82.6% DK + 17.4% GR @ 4.46
            14 92% English + 8% IQ @ 4.49
            15 72.6% DK + 27.4% North_Italian @ 4.57
            16 79.5% English + 20.5% Serbian @ 4.63
            17 90.3% Cornish + 9.7% Druze @ 4.63
            18 85% NL + 15% Tuscan @ 4.7
            19 92.2% English + 7.8% Kurdish @ 4.71
            20 94.7% West_&_Central_German + 5.3% Druze @ 4.74
            4-oracle :
            +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            1 DK + DK + English + Tuscan @ 4.388289
            2 DK + DK + DK + Tuscan @ 4.395744
            3 DK + DK + Scottish + Tuscan @ 4.634667
            4 Cornish + DK + DK + Tuscan @ 4.635028
            5 DK + DK + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 4.662831
            6 DK + DK + NL + Tuscan @ 4.668180
            7 DK + DK + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 4.678769
            8 DK + English + English + Tuscan @ 4.757131
            9 DK + English + NO + Tuscan @ 4.787333
            10 DK + DK + IE + Tuscan @ 4.878564
            11 DK + English + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.899412
            12 DK + DK + NO + Tuscan @ 4.917696
            13 DK + English + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 4.933674
            14 DK + English + NL + Tuscan @ 4.940976
            15 English + English + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.944197
            16 DK + English + Scottish + Tuscan @ 4.949324
            17 DK + English + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 4.969296
            18 Cornish + DK + NO + Tuscan @ 4.973373
            19 English + English + NO + Tuscan @ 4.997740
            20 Cornish + DK + English + Tuscan @ 5.044414




            :
            Ancient Eurasia k6:
            # Population Percent
            1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 42.29
            2 Natufian 38.4
            3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 17.47
            4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.93
            5 Sub_Saharan 0.91
            mixed mode :
            # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
            1 76.5% Italian_South + 23.5% Motala12 @ 0.58
            2 82.7% Albanian + 17.3% SHG @ 0.68
            3 75.9% Italian_South + 24.1% SHG @ 0.68
            4 95.7% French + 4.3% Baloch_Iranian @ 0.69
            5 95.8% French + 4.2% Makrani @ 0.71
            6 81.3% Greek + 18.7% Motala12 @ 0.73
            7 95% French + 5% Iranian_Shirazi @ 0.76
            8 84.9% English + 15.1% Jew_Libyan @ 0.81
            9 95.9% French + 4.1% Brahui @ 0.82
            10 83.2% Albanian + 16.8% Motala12 @ 0.82
            11 95.3% French + 4.7% Iran_N @ 0.83
            12 95.4% French + 4.6% Iranian_Lori @ 0.84
            13 96.2% French + 3.8% CHG @ 0.84
            14 52.7% Steppe_MLBA + 47.3% Sardinian @ 0.84
            15 96% French + 4% Balochi @ 0.84
            16 89.7% English + 10.3% Levant_BA @ 0.86
            17 95.2% French + 4.8% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 0.88
            18 95.4% French + 4.6% Iran_LN @ 0.9
            19 94.6% French + 5.4% Iran_N_WC1 @ 0.91
            20 85.5% English + 14.5% Jew_Tunisian @ 0.91
            4-oracle:
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
            1 Georgian + Hungarian_KO1 + Italian_South + Jew_Ashkenazi @ 0.425000
            2 Georgian + Italian_South + Jew_Ashkenazi + WHG @ 0.425000
            3 Georgian + Sardinian + SHG + Sicilian @ 0.545025
            4 Georgian + Italian_South + Sardinian + SHG @ 0.573502
            5 Albanian + Cypriot + Italian_South + Motala12 @ 0.575976
            6 Georgian + Jew_Ashkenazi + Motala12 + Sardinian @ 0.586024
            7 Assyrian + Hungarian_KO1 + Italian_South + Sicilian @ 0.596391
            8 Assyrian + Italian_South + Sicilian + WHG @ 0.596391
            9 Albanian + Europe_LNBA + Scottish + Spanish @ 0.629057
            10 Italian_South + Italian_South + Jew_Moroccan + Motala12 @ 0.637368
            11 Georgian + Greek + Hungarian_KO1 + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.659073
            12 Georgian + Greek + Jew_Moroccan + WHG @ 0.659073
            13 Assyrian + Hungarian_KO1 + Italian_South + Italian_South @ 0.705250
            14 Assyrian + Italian_South + Italian_South + WHG @ 0.705250
            15 Cypriot + Hungarian_KO1 + Jew_Iranian + Romanian @ 0.711064
            16 Cypriot + Jew_Iranian + Romanian + WHG @ 0.711064
            17 Georgian + Jew_Ashkenazi + Sardinian + SHG @ 0.712789
            18 Basque + Hungarian_KO1 + Jew_iraqi + Jew_iraqi @ 0.713289
            19 Basque + Jew_iraqi + Jew_iraqi + WHG @ 0.713289
            20 Cypriot + Cypriot + Motala12 + Spanish @ 0.715340

            Comment


            • #7
              Dolfinarius,
              I see from your mixed modes that one of the calculators guessed 87% English + 13% Ashkenazi Jewish ("AJ" is their abbreviation) while another calculator guessed 89.9% Southeast English + 10.1% Ashkenazi Jewish.

              That is interesting but it doesn't correlate with the 0% Jewish estimated for you by MyHeritageDNA, although certainly that 1.1% "Greek" could be a stand-in for Jewish as small amounts of Greek occasionally shows up in that calculator in fully Ashkenazic people. Then again, it could be noise. At any rate, your Jewish DNA percentage can't be as high as 10% because MyHeritageDNA would have correctly identified some of that. When you wrote "At least 50 of them [your Family Finder matches] are jewish on all lines" that would probably represent only between 1 and 3 DNA segments because they would be expected to cluster in the same areas. That would likely represent less than 1% of your DNA.

              Your readings of 1.5% Armenian, 2.66% East Mediterranean, and 0.96% Near Eastern elements in Eurogenes K36 are also interesting. You have something relatively recent that's non-European for sure.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by khazaria View Post
                Dolfinarius,
                I see from your mixed modes that one of the calculators guessed 87% English + 13% Ashkenazi Jewish ("AJ" is their abbreviation) while another calculator guessed 89.9% Southeast English + 10.1% Ashkenazi Jewish.

                That is interesting but it doesn't correlate with the 0% Jewish estimated for you by MyHeritageDNA, although certainly that 1.1% "Greek" could be a stand-in for Jewish as small amounts of Greek occasionally shows up in that calculator in fully Ashkenazic people. Then again, it could be noise. At any rate, your Jewish DNA percentage can't be as high as 10% because MyHeritageDNA would have correctly identified some of that. When you wrote "At least 50 of them [your Family Finder matches] are jewish on all lines" that would probably represent only between 1 and 3 DNA segments because they would be expected to cluster in the same areas. That would likely represent less than 1% of your DNA.

                Your readings of 1.5% Armenian, 2.66% East Mediterranean, and 0.96% Near Eastern elements in Eurogenes K36 are also interesting. You have something relatively recent that's non-European for sure.
                10% cant´t be Jewish, that is true. .I don't have any non-European matches except Jews at Family Finder, Genesis Gedmtach , myheritage. But is it strange that I have 0% Jewish. Maybe it is Italian Jewish or something like that.
                I triangulate with Jewish people at Myheritage :
                1 : 100% AJ
                2 : 95 % AJ ( 1 & 2 are brothers)
                3 : 45,8% AJ
                4: 45, 8%

                Chromosome 4 73364994-81352269



                1: 100% AJ
                2: 89,6% AJ

                Chromosome 20 23766096-369680096




                1: 90% AJ / 6,7% SJ
                2: 91,5 AJ
                3: 46,6% AJ / 11,5% SJ

                Chromosome 11 15984358-121253952


                1: 93,9 % AJ / 6,1% SJ
                2: 20,9 % AJ/ 29,7% SJ

                chromosome 4 72433300-82913135


                1: 43,7 AJ%
                2: 20,9% AJ/ 29,7 %SJ
                Chromosome 4 72433300-82382526 ps: and many more


                GENESIS GEDMATCH :
                I match :
                1 : 100% AJ
                chromosome 14 99,582,796-106,085,920 chromosome 22 20,293,625-24,622,470


                2: 100% AJ
                chromosome 14 99,582,796-106,085,920 chromosome 22 20,293,625-24,622,470


                3: 100 AJ
                chromosome 4 68,562,365-81, 028,336


                4: 100% AJ
                chromosome 14 99,423,722-106,085,920


                5: 100% AJ
                chromosome 14 99,476,373-106,020,366

                6: 100% AJ
                cromosome 4 68,453,189-82,977,205 ps: and many more




                Those matching segments are painted out as AJ or middle eastern or west med or west med or west asian
                Last edited by dolfinarius; 6th January 2019, 03:23 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My gggggreatgrandmother's name was Judith Barconne. She was born in France. Is Barconne derived from Br(r) Cohn? . Is Barconne a Jewish surname?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The etymology of French family names is an extremely complicated subject! You would have to rule out, at least, that there is not a "toponyme" (local place name) Barconne or similar, possibly so localized that it was the name of a field, hamlet, tiny watercourse, or some other insignificant geographical feature. French family names that are not based on given names or occupations are often derived from place names. And, thanks largely to the French Revolution, the "terriers" or "grosses de reconnaissances" that would have enumerated the feudal tenants and the older toponymes" or "lieux-dits" where they lived are all but gone! Many of the place names have come down to us in the "cadastres" or local property ownership maps, if you can find them. The very old "terriers" and notarial records from medieval times did occasionally note the presence of Jewish families -- again, if you are lucky enough to find such records! If you know the area where your Barconne family lived, you might look for digitized copies of old "inventaires sommaires" from the "archives départementales" for whatever département is appropriate. Long before the internet, diligent archivists from many of the départements prepared and published indexes and other finding aids for their collections. These amazing volumes are mainly from the end of the 19th Century. Some of them have turned up on Google.

                    Meanwhile, modern genealogists are eagerly awaiting the arrival of a new generation of archivists who have grown up knowing nothing but the internet, and who assume that all information should be digitized and available to the public! I hope I live that long! (It's not just the new generation of archivists we're waiting for. We also need a new generation of the bureaucrats who control the budgets for the archives, who must also share that belief!)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dolfinarius View Post
                      My gggggreatgrandmother's name was Judith Barconne. She was born in France. Is Barconne derived from Br(r) Cohn? . Is Barconne a Jewish surname?
                      No, and French Catholic people never show up as autosomal DNA matches to Jews.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I know myOrigins :

                        European 99%
                        :
                        British Isles
                        84%


                        Southeast Europe
                        15%



                        Undetermined Region 1%

                        Comment

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