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  • East Europe origins

    Hello

    Can I get some information on what does it mean?

    While I agree that it corresponds to truth, I am shocked that it appeared on myOrigins.

    As, from what I see on the map, the marked area is mostly Poland and west Ukraine.

    But, according to my knowledge, Poland and west Ukraine does not have any specific genes - is is mostly a mix of Scandinavian, Jewish, Celtic, Turkish/Balcan, Finish and some Baltic. So, generally, Poland and west Ukraine share most of their DNA with Scandinavians.

    So, does the FTDNA system just take that mix and recognize it as East Europe? I have seen reports of people losing their Scandinavian origins to British Isles. So, did Scandinavian get separated into branches and only pure Scandinavian without let´s say British Isles or East European mixtures is recognized as "Scandinavian"?

    Polish population has been tested and about 60% of Polish DNA is Nordic. So, with me having mostly Polish origins and typical Polish/Scandinavian appearance traits, I do not believe I differ genetically a lot from most of the Polish population. So why I do not have about 60% Scandinavian?

    So, I guess the results work different way. They do not take 60% of Scandinavian DNA as Scandinavian, but they take the combinations specific to Poland/Ukraine as East Europe. Which could potentially cause let´s say Half-scandinavian-half-Turkish to get recognized as 100% East Europe, if the right combinations are inherited from both parents.

    Therefore, this test makes guesses to get more detailed information about modern populations, instead of showing the more obvious facts. I expected it to show a mixture of Scandinavian, Turkish, Celtic and Jewish, which literally makes the typical East European DNA.

    Just wondering, how many native, pure Scandinavians got them guessed this way as "British Isles" or "Central Europe"? British Isles had their DNA mixed a lot with Scandinavians, which makes having 100% British Isles DNA literally impossible, while many Scandinavians get them due to many similarities.

    Therefore, I am looking forward to get my raw data on GEDmatch, which seems a bit less experimental. But, I am still waiting for the raw data.

  • #2
    I wouldn’t read into it. I get 50% Eastern Europe and majority of my family comes from all around Germany. I didn’t even score any central %. Their algorithm is messed up for Eastern Europe.
    Last edited by Mstock; 8 March 2018, 06:33 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mstock View Post
      I wouldn’t read into it. I get 50% Eastern Europe and majority of my family comes from all around Germany. I didn’t even score any central %. Their algorithm is messed up for Eastern Europe.
      Well... Let me present an introductory (somewhat overgeneralized) treatment of the issue. Just a couple of points.

      For an easy reading, in the following, I try to use names of modern countries to describe lands they occupy today ( 2018-03-08 ).

      FTDNA assumes Central Europe somewhat like it was understood in the 9th century AD, when approximately France was Western Europe, while Central Europe included approximately Austria, Switzerland and Germany, but Germany only up to more or less the Elbe. Then East to the Elbe there were Slavic people and the lands of Eastern Europe.

      FTDNA's Central Europe incorporates the entire modern Germany (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) and Austria. I do not know about Switzerland.

      German states (of the Holy Roman Empire) gradually took over the lands occupied by Slavic people, then over past 300-400 years had a continuous and significant influx of workers of both sexes from Slavic countries (mostly Poland). Slavic admixture is to be expected in Germany.

      Starting at the beginning of Late Medieval Period there were significant migrations from German states to Slavic states neighbouring them (to Czechia and to Poland). Thus, when nowadays acquiring a reference population in those typical Slavic countries, one gets Slavic components with German admixture, and let's not forget about non-negligible components from pre-Germanic and pre-Slavic populations. Even someone in the UK can get a hit in populations east of Germany and Austria, and not necessarily due to a Slavic heritage. Of course, an unknown Slavic heritage cannot be excluded for any single individual, but in general that used to be rather rare in the UK. (By the way, if you have thought that people born in India were the largest immigrant group in the UK, that is no longer the case. Approximately one million people born in Poland lives in the UK, today.)

      Oh, let's not forget about the Austrian Empire/Austro-Hungarian Empire that extended into nowadays Ukraine and Slavic lands in the Balkans (and Poland, and Slovakia) for 100-300 years, until 1918.

      Complicated? Yes...

      Does that mean that myOrigins is just a toy? No, but it cannot give the results some people envision for populations that were intermixing with each other for hundreds of years, or for situations when the source population was/populations were the same.


      Mr. W.

      P.S.
      Last year, there were well over one million people from Ukraine legally working and living in Poland.
      Last edited by dna; 8 March 2018, 11:38 PM.

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      • #4
        Skewed Results

        Hi. Is it just me being a newbie or would someone with more experience see My Ethnic Origins percentages as way off? As you described, my Germanic roots in Eastern Europe are deep and convoluted. 3 of 4 grandparents were German. My mother and family lived in what is now Romania, once part of the Austro-Hungarian empire until WWII. The German community there was established in the 18th century and was quite intact, believed to have emigrated from Alsace-Lorraine. My paternal grandfather was also German: His family came from Poland and moved to Russia in the mid 1800s. Only 1 grandmother has British Isles roots, yet FTDNA estimates my British Isles DNA at 79%, Eastern Europe only 17% with the rest a mix of Jewish and Asia Minor. The trace amounts are plausible but the British DNA profile makes no sense and I can't buy FTDNA's migration explanation. Really? People moved to Eastern Europe in large numbers FROM the British Isles to account for those findings (As the oversimplified explanation from a company email response suggested). Is there another way to look at this or is FTDNA's sampling of German population data sorely lacking.
        Last edited by hypatia2; 10 March 2018, 07:30 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by hypatia2 View Post
          Hi. Is it just me being a newbie or would someone with more experience see My Ethnic Origins percentages as way off? As you described, my Germanic roots in Eastern Europe are deep and convoluted. 3 of 4 grandparents were German. My mother and family lived in what is now Romania, once part of the Austro-Hungarian empire until WWII. The German community there was established in the 18th century and was quite intact, believed to have emigrated from Alsace-Lorraine. My paternal grandfather was also German: His family came from Poland and moved to Russia in the mid 1800s. Only 1 grandmother has British Isles roots, yet FTDNA estimates my British Isles DNA at 79%, Eastern Europe only 17% with the rest a mix of Jewish and Asia Minor. The trace amounts are plausible but the British DNA profile makes no sense and I can't buy FTDNA's migration explanation. Really? People moved to Eastern Europe in large numbers FROM the British Isles to account for those findings (As the oversimplified explanation from a company email response suggested). Is there another way to look at this or is FTDNA's sampling of German population data sorely lacking.

          My greatgrandmother (maternal) was from Westphalia- I can trace back by paper to 1700s. My mother gets E. European and Scandinavian (my mom).
          While her brother gets E European and British Isles. The rest of her ancestry is not Western European so I can pretty much verify this must represent the German. She is Mostly Mediterranean and AJ w some Sephardic and some Turkish. However I have difficulty finding her German matches bc our Jewish surnames are German in origin and with over 8000 matches it is hard to find

          But is there such a thing as a “German” population sample? How would they get one? The borders have changed within the past 100-200 years so where or whom do you test? And do you separate by region? Like I said my great grandmother and her family were from Minden & were baptised in the same Church for the past 300+ years and more if I could research in the town. But is Westphalia Dna different than other parts of Germany? I don’t know the answers but maybe German dna is not a single source but a mix and that is why my mom gets Scandinavia and E Europe while her brother gets British Isles & E Europe. Though neither is completely correct.

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