My full blood Irish grandfathers ancestry results

[kevinduffy]

I give up. You must just like to be contentious.

All I ask of people is that if they are going to make claims then they should be willing to provide evidence to back up those claims. Why you find that unreasonable is beyond me.

[kevinduffy]

I really am not trying to be sarcastic, but where's your evidence that she is claiming it was widespread. Please direct me to the post where she used the word "widespread" to describe Catholic-Protestant intermarriage. I just quickly reviewed the thread and the closest she came to portraying it as not rare was saying it was more common than you would think. That's a far cry from "widespread."

But the basic advice still stands - just chill. If she's so far off from reality, I don't think you have to worry that her view will carry that much influence. And her posting may cause someone to make an interesting discovery they never would have found otherwise, if they had just accepted the "less than 1%" figure and never thought they may have Protestants among their Irish ancestors.

Common and widespread more or less mean the same thing.

[GenealogyKeeper]

Irish RC records in Church of Ireland registers?

I have read that you should also look for RC records in Church of Ireland registers. Has anyone had success with that?

I had tried irishgenealogy.ie for the RC parish records but my parishes didn't seem to be covered.

[ltd-jean-pull]

If it happened where is the evidence? You like to make claims but you don't like providing the evidence to back up those claims.

Although you don't think you are replying rudely, this post is tantamount to calling me liar.

I can assure you I have far better things to do than make up stories to post on forums just for the hell of it.

[Darren]

Hi All,

So... I am not certain if this discussion is productive. We can agree to disagree, or just simply disagree and move on. It's a new year!

-Darren
Family Tree DNA

[kevinduffy]

Although you don't think you are replying rudely, this post is tantamount to calling me liar.

I can assure you I have far better things to do than make up stories to post on forums just for the hell of it.

Whether or not you are a liar depends on whether or not you are being intentionally misleading. Personally, I don't think you are a liar just delusional. You would rather believe in a fake Irish history than in what actually happened.

[kevinduffy]

Hi All,

So... I am not certain if this discussion is productive. We can agree to disagree, or just simply disagree and move on. It's a new year!

-Darren
Family Tree DNA

The problem is that we are talking about history here. Something either happened or it didn't.

[georgian1950]

The problem is that we are talking about history here. Something either happened or it didn't.

and sometimes the truth lies in the middle.

[kevinduffy]

and sometimes the truth lies in the middle.

Not in the real world.

[georgian1950]

Not in the real world.

What happened, happened. But history is interpreted by humans. I'll place my bets on the middle, and I will collect most of the time.

Jack

[kevinduffy]

What happened, happened. But history is interpreted by humans. I'll place my bets on the middle, and I will collect most of the time.

Jack

Either intermarriage was common between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland or it wasn't. It can't be both.

[MMaddi]

Either intermarriage was common between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland or it wasn't. It can't be both.

You're insisting that, based on one study using only records from 1911, for the entirety of Irish history it was always less than 1%. You're claiming that ltd-jean-pull is saying that it was common, although my reading of her posts was that she was saying that it's "more common than you think" - not the same thing as "common." A little more nuance in your understanding of her posts would probably have saved us all from watching you go on a crusade to prove what you claimed she was saying is wrong.

I agree with georgian1950 that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Perhaps there were times in Irish history, when the political environment was not so heated, that the intermarriage rate was perhaps 5%. That's not common, but certainly not the "less than 1%" rate you would have us believe, without any evidence for the pre-1911 period.

In any event, genealogy tells us that we should follow the paper trail evidence wherever it leads. If we have a preconception that may not be true, it doesn't serve the truth to declare before looking at the records that something was virtually impossible to have happened and not investigate the possibility. It's just bad genealogy to dismiss out of hand that a rare or uncommon event for the time and place may have happened in a specific case.

[kevinduffy]

You're insisting that, based on one study using only records from 1911, for the entirety of Irish history it was always less than 1%. You're claiming that ltd-jean-pull is saying that it was common, although my reading of her posts was that she was saying that it's "more common than you think" - not the same thing as "common." A little more nuance in your understanding of her posts would probably have saved us all from watching you go on a crusade to prove what you claimed she was saying is wrong.

I agree with georgian1950 that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Perhaps there were times in Irish history, when the political environment was not so heated, that the intermarriage rate was perhaps 5%. That's not common, but certainly not the "less than 1%" rate you would have us believe, without any evidence for the pre-1911 period.

In any event, genealogy tells us that we should follow the paper trail evidence wherever it leads. If we have a preconception that may not be true, it doesn't serve the truth to declare before looking at the records that something was virtually impossible to have happened and not investigate the possibility. It's just bad genealogy to dismiss out of hand that a rare or uncommon event for the time and place may have happened in a specific case.

If intermarriage between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland was common or widespread or whatever word you want to use then there should be evidence of it. If people are aware of any research papers detailing significant levels of intermarriage in Ireland then please provide links to them or to newspaper stories about them. All I am asking for here is evidence, not the moon and the stars.

[Conat]

If anyone knows of other Irish resources, please post!

Ireland Reaching Out has proved useful to me and I haven't posted all my queries on there yet - especially handy if you know the parish they came from, as there are individual forums for each one:

http://www.irelandxo.com

[Dabney Carr]

Protestants didn't even exist until around 500 years ago.