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Fam Finder match list vs. ydna match list (no common names)

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  • Fam Finder match list vs. ydna match list (no common names)

    There are some basics like this that i just can't seem to find answers on. Not one name from my ydna match list is in my family finder match list and vice versa. In other words, no common names between the two results...

    All but one of my ydna-12 (distance of zero and distance of one) matches have middle eastern names and not one of my family finder matches have a middle eastern name. WTF is going on?

    Also, is there a way to tell which family finder matches are from my father's side and which are from my mother's side?

    Note: I only show matches on ynda-12. Nothing for 25, 67 or 111 if that means anything. And i suppose it's normal to not find any of my family's last names within any of my results? Not one person listed matches any of my family's names.

    Any help would be appreciated.
    Thank you,
    Tom

  • #2
    Are you able to test at least one parent? This will give you clues to which matches belong on your paternal vs maternal.

    If not the next best thing is to test an Aunt, Uncle or cousin, but note that your parents siblings inherited a different mixture of your grandparents DNA. You would only be able to identify matches you share, the rest that you don't share can still be either maternal or paternal.

    Comment


    • #3
      yDNA 12 matches can be to far back in time for Family Finder to trace.

      yDNA is only 1 single chromosome out of 46.
      23 maternal and 23 paternal.
      yDNA does not recombine and is passed on from father to son virtually unchanged for generations, where as the other 45 single chromosomes(tested in Family Finder) undergo recombination.
      child only receives 50% of each parents DNA, the other 50% of ancestors DNA is lost.
      X in 23rd chromosome only recombines in females when passing on to children, males pass it to daughters unchanged
      Last edited by prairielad; 5 July 2015, 02:05 PM.

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      • #4
        Please share with us your predicted haplogroup, as some issues are haplogroup specific.

        How many matches do you have at 12 marker level?

        Answering your first question...
        • What you see means that if anybody with whom you share Y chromosome tested, then they are further from you than a 2nd cousin. (It was observed that beyond that relationship level there might be not enough of shared DNA to allow matching with Family Finder.)
        • Family Finder allows one to find, let's say, up to the 5th cousins. That means that 64 lines of descent are potentially tracked. The one that coincides with Y chromosome is only one of those 64 ( 1.6% ). Possibly nobody else but you tested from that line. Possibly you are representing the only unbroken male line.


        W. (Mr.)

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        • #5
          similar but slightly different y vs fam finder question

          I have a similar but slightly different question about a fam finder result and a y result. I have a fam finder match (actually two since same user seems to have another family member in my fam finder results) who is in my surname project but an entirely different haplogroup (my surname project spans several totally different haplogroups). I assume this means either (a) our autosomal dna matches are for entirely different line from the surname, or (b) there is an npe somewhere in the surname direct line causing these results.

          Does my analysis make sense?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Smsitton View Post
            I have a similar but slightly different question about a fam finder result and a y result. I have a fam finder match (actually two since same user seems to have another family member in my fam finder results) who is in my surname project but an entirely different haplogroup (my surname project spans several totally different haplogroups). I assume this means either (a) our autosomal dna matches are for entirely different line from the surname, or (b) there is an npe somewhere in the surname direct line causing these results.

            Does my analysis make sense?
            Yes, it does make sense.

            However, the NPE scenario is many times less likely as the other scenarios. There is more than your A and B, for example C. a voluntary name change.

            Mr. W.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for reply. I agree that npe is not a great term to use, and the alternative of a surname change particular back in time through things like informal adoptions within families when parents die is definitely a possibility for explaining a different haplogroup in this situation where there is an autosomal match, same surname but different haplogroup.

              Several options for exploring this one!

              Comment


              • #8
                Some of the ways a family name/surname would become not continuous in the male line

                A. A voluntary name change due to religious or personal reasons (e.g. not wanted to be associated with own family, starting a new life).

                B. Family alias becoming the family name.

                C. Taking wife's family name upon marriage. That was rare but known to happen. An easy to understand example: a man marrying the only daughter of an established innkeeper. It is known to occur in at least England, Germany and Poland. This about a custom predating the 19th century bureaucracy with its strict rules. Then it was again legally possible in the 20th century, at different times in various countries. When changing names upon marriage was not possible, some men were legally changing their surnames (to the one of the future wife!) while still bachelors.

                D. In Spain rules were different, so if the family branch spent some time there...

                E. Migration.
                • Migration to the US...
                • Language change. For example, many Scots migrated at the beginning of the 16th century to Europe. Their names were adjusted to conform to the rules of the local language, or translated into the local language or sometimes simply changed.
                • A family name at first being written in an alphabet derived from Latin, then in a non-Latin alphabet, and then again in the original alphabet. In the example of a Polish singer Anna German, her father family name was Hörmann, in Russia his family name was being written using the Cyrillic script as Герман, upon transliteration back into Latin alphabet that became German.


                F. Entering military service under an assumed name was happening through centuries for a variety of reasons. Even today, one enters the French Foreign Legion under a new name.

                G. Posthumous child receiving family name of his mother new husband. I have never researched that angle, but it appears to me that the prevailing rule tended to be that if a child was born within 6 months from the date of the marriage, then it was a legal child.

                H. People changing names to escape prosecution (for example peasants, servants, slaves or soldiers running away).

                I. Uncorrected clerical error (and it is a very broad category).

                ------

                Mr. W.

                P.S.
                I have used examples posted by various contributors in the thread http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=36966. Thank you!
                Last edited by dna; 5 July 2015, 08:45 PM.

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                • #9
                  ancient origins results more likely

                  I have been involved in YDNA testing for some time now and have only once received a match that even closely resembled my dad's family's true surname. And thankfully, I have never received any matches that even closely resembled the surname of my grandfather's stepfather (legally taken when my grandfather was in an adult).

                  My closest matches are at the 67-marker level but the genetic distance is 6 or 7, which is quite far away.

                  YDA testing has given me more a hint of my direct paternal family's ancient origins than anything else. I enjoy communicating occasionally with matches at times, especially the close ones. So far, I am G-CTS4803.

                  P.S. My father (now deceased) never did YDNA testing here, but we tested him with 23 and Me. Autosomally, that test showed us as son/father. His basic YDNA haplogroup on 23 and Me was G, like mine. He also comes up as my father here on this site, using the Family Finder test.
                  Last edited by mixedkid; 6 July 2015, 04:08 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TomHerman View Post
                    There are some basics like this that i just can't seem to find answers on. Not one name from my ydna match list is in my family finder match list and vice versa. In other words, no common names between the two results...
                    I personally found that those who matched yDNA who "should" be on my family finder list... never took the family finder test. That may be one of your problems. Then of course, the more distant the yDNA match is, the less likely they are to show up on a family finder test (such as GD3 or more).

                    I also had another person who should have shown up on my family finder, who I had to lower the threshold on family finder to have the show up. Again, this was a more distant relative.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Smsitton View Post
                      I have a similar but slightly different question about a fam finder result and a y result. I have a fam finder match (actually two since same user seems to have another family member in my fam finder results) who is in my surname project but an entirely different haplogroup (my surname project spans several totally different haplogroups). I assume this means either (a) our autosomal dna matches are for entirely different line from the surname, or (b) there is an npe somewhere in the surname direct line causing these results.

                      Does my analysis make sense?
                      My first thought would be are they an actual male descendent of the male line? For example, my Finney line actually comes from Rachel Finney who's "husband" was supposed to be a Cherokee Indian (no proof DNA wise confirming that though). Anyhow, Rachel Finney kept the Finney name, and all of my ancestors who are her male descendants kept the Finney name. The next likely scenario is that someone's father may not be who you think they are. In Rachel's example, children of two of her sons tested and they turned out to have different fathers. And last... I know I have joined a few groups hoping to learn about my ancestor lines, but I am female, therefore my last name is different and I can NOT test yDNA. Or my son... his yDNA is not MY father's yDNA yet we have joined groups hoping to link with Family Finders of it's memebers. Hope that helps explain a few reasons for varied results!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jsarnacki View Post
                        I personally found that those who matched yDNA who "should" be on my family finder list... never took the family finder test. That may be one of your problems. Then of course, the more distant the yDNA match is, the less likely they are to show up on a family finder test (such as GD3 or more).

                        I also had another person who should have shown up on my family finder, who I had to lower the threshold on family finder to have the show up. Again, this was a more distant relative.
                        Thank you Jeanine!

                        I have silently (subconsciously) assumed that the original post asked only about those who had icons indicating that the other test was taken (Y chromosome STR markers or Family Finder). However, if one is new to the tools, that is not obvious

                        W. (Mr.)

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                        • #13
                          As a comparison, I have 24 Y-DNA matches at the 37 marker level, all with variants of my surname, four known to descend from my 6th great grandfather the rest more distant - two of those with known connections being a genetic distance of 0 on the YDNA test.

                          Of all those matches, none of them match me, my dad, or my deceased grandfather's sister on Family Finder. On the other hand, I have 4-5 FF matches that come through different children of the same paternal 6th great grandparents but not through an unbroken male line, so they wouldn't match on YDNA testing.

                          So anyhow, just an example to show that even with multiple known connections on the paternal line through both FF and YDNA testing, there's not necessarily going to be an overlap between the two because of the differences in the way they are inherited.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Smsitton View Post
                            I have a similar but slightly different question about a fam finder result and a y result. I have a fam finder match (actually two since same user seems to have another family member in my fam finder results) who is in my surname project but an entirely different haplogroup (my surname project spans several totally different haplogroups). I assume this means either (a) our autosomal dna matches are for entirely different line from the surname, or (b) there is an npe somewhere in the surname direct line causing these results.

                            Does my analysis make sense?
                            What are the haplogroups, do you mean different haplogroups like R and E?

                            or are you referring to two surnames sharing the same main haplogroup (ie R), but have different terminal SNPs? (ie R-M269 and R-DF27)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Prairielad -- Different haplogroups...I-m253 and R-m269. This surname group seems to have two large clusters..the R-m269s and I-m253s with a couple of stray haplogroups mixed in but the bulk is in these two.

                              There is no clear pattern on names listed as oldest paternal ancestors...I think lots of people have mixed up several lines of this surname...hopefully some day with enough participants it will get straightened out.

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