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X chromosome painting by Dr McDonald

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  • X chromosome painting by Dr McDonald

    I have just received my results from Dr McDonald. I will start a new thread about them, now I just would like to concentrate on my X chromosome.

    I don't see anything very surprising in the chromosome pairs, but my X chromosome is very interesting. There are 2 big blocks (roughly 30% altogether) of South Asian ancestry.

    I don't know how to interpret this. If I understand it well, being a male my X chromosome comes only from my mother, is that right? And if so, these paintings mean that my mum had a very significant South Asian ancestry?
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  • #2
    Originally posted by mihun View Post
    I don't see anything very surprising in the chromosome pairs, but my X chromosome is very interesting. There are 2 big blocks (roughly 30% altogether) of South Asian ancestry.

    I don't know how to interpret this. If I understand it well, being a male my X chromosome comes only from my mother, is that right? And if so, these paintings mean that my mum had a very significant South Asian ancestry?
    Yes, and probably yes. Does your mother perhaps have some Roma (Gypsy) ancestry? Have you done an mtDNA test? If you did have Roma ancestry (at least on your direct maternal line), you'd be likely to have a haplogroup like M, which is rarely found outside of India (besides the Roma).

    Ancestor-Projects (sister site to GEDmatch) has a Roma (Gypsy) Project if you want to compare autosomal DNA with people of known and suspected Roma ancestry.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nathanm View Post
      Yes, and probably yes. Does your mother perhaps have some Roma (Gypsy) ancestry? Have you done an mtDNA test? If you did have Roma ancestry (at least on your direct maternal line), you'd be likely to have a haplogroup like M, which is rarely found outside of India (besides the Roma).

      Ancestor-Projects (sister site to GEDmatch) has a Roma (Gypsy) Project if you want to compare autosomal DNA with people of known and suspected Roma ancestry.
      The thing is that I am not aware of any Gypsy ancestry. My mother was blond although with brown eyes, her brother - blond with blue eyes - could have been the prototype of a Scandinavian. I am not quite sure if the X chromosome follows the same way as the mtdna, but if yes, then my female line ancestors were Hungarian peasants in a small village near the Austrian border. This is the part of Hungary where Gypsies are virtually absent. Hungarian-Gypsy intermarriages are not very common even today, and certainly were shunned and stigmatized by both sides centuries ago. I could imagine that a Hungarian farmer fathered an illegitimate child to a Roma girl, but it is extremely unlikely that the close knit and very traditional Hungarian peasant community would have accepted a Roma bride.

      My mtdna haplogroup is R. Need full sequence to determine the ultimate haplogroup, but acording to James Lick's calculator R1a is the most likely. I know that R is frequent in India, but its real homeland seems to be the Caucasus. The 4 HVR2 matches I have, all are from British extraction. In other data bases I found a German and a Finnish woman who match me on HVR2 level.

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      • #4
        I'm not sure I can trust that. South Asian shows no where else in all of your 22 other chromosomes mapped, not even a hint anywhere else.

        Edit

        Ok I checked my daughters BGA from McDonald and she does have ME only on Xand no other place and I know her ME comes from my mother so i guess it is possible to see a sample just on the X.

        However from looking at your map I'd say you have a South Asia map coming from one maternal grandparent and Europe from the other so if anything probably on your mothers mothers fathers mother side or mothers fathers mothers side being full Roma mapped.
        Last edited by mkdexter; 12 March 2012, 04:23 PM.

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        • #5
          If Mideast or South Asian is showing disproportionately on the X chromosome, could it be due to a different sample than what was used for the other 22 chromosomes? Or could it be due to remnant from the neolithic where x chromosomes better survived the bronze age intrusions?

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          • #6
            FTDNA PF results

            Continent (Subcontinent) Population Percentage Margin of Error
            Europe (Western European) Orcadian 83,06% ±2,37%
            Middle East Adygei, Iranian, Jewish 16,94% ±2,37%

            DIY Dodecad results:

            22.61% East_European
            39.40% West_European
            25.29% Mediterranean
            0.00% Neo_African
            7.58% West_Asian
            1.81% South_Asian
            1.00% Northeast_Asian
            0.03% Southeast_Asian
            0.00% East_African
            2.29% Southwest_Asian
            0.00% Northwest_African
            0.00% Palaeo_African

            Euro 7 results

            5.39% Caucasus
            29.55% Northwestern
            36.22% Northeastern
            12.40% Southeastern
            0.00% African
            1.26% Far_Asian
            15.17% Southwestern

            Dr McDonald said I fit in the "pure" Hungarian category, although on the map he put me to the German-Austrian-Czech borderland, probably due to my 25% German ancestry.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by paitenceofjob View Post
              If Mideast or South Asian is showing disproportionately on the X chromosome, could it be due to a different sample than what was used for the other 22 chromosomes? Or could it be due to remnant from the neolithic where x chromosomes better survived the bronze age intrusions?
              No only one sample is used per FF test

              No because that distance is too far back for the mapped segments shown, they're too large.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mihun View Post
                FTDNA PF results

                Continent (Subcontinent) Population Percentage Margin of Error
                Europe (Western European) Orcadian 83,06% ±2,37%
                Middle East Adygei, Iranian, Jewish 16,94% ±2,37%

                DIY Dodecad results:

                22.61% East_European
                39.40% West_European
                25.29% Mediterranean
                0.00% Neo_African
                7.58% West_Asian
                1.81% South_Asian
                1.00% Northeast_Asian
                0.03% Southeast_Asian
                0.00% East_African
                2.29% Southwest_Asian
                0.00% Northwest_African
                0.00% Palaeo_African

                Euro 7 results

                5.39% Caucasus
                29.55% Northwestern
                36.22% Northeastern
                12.40% Southeastern
                0.00% African
                1.26% Far_Asian
                15.17% Southwestern

                Dr McDonald said I fit in the "pure" Hungarian category, although on the map he put me to the German-Austrian-Czech borderland, probably due to my 25% German ancestry.
                Why don't you ask McDonald what he thinks of your South Asian stretches on the X. My feeling is that his programme sometimes has difficulties distinguishing Europe, Middle East, and South Asia on the X, esp. if the stretch is not too large. But if it's large enough it's likely real. My mother in law, wife, and daughter in law all have an identical South Asian stretch straddling the centromere of the X (they have very little S.A. autosomal v alue, just like you). But Mc Donald feels it is genuine. Since it is "sticky" over the generations it could be pretty old. On the other hand he wasn't certain about a smaller "South Asian" which appeared on my daughter in law's X near the telomere. The same stretch was categorized as "Middle East" for my wife and "Europe" for my mother in law. A classic example of computer misdirection. I think in all cases this smaller stretch represents East European values for which the other labels are a proxy. Perhaps because of McDonald's sample populations. He has no Germans, Poles, or Ukrainians. Most of the time though his guesses are quite good.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by irenych View Post
                  Why don't you ask McDonald what he thinks of your South Asian stretches on the X. My feeling is that his programme sometimes has difficulties distinguishing Europe, Middle East, and South Asia on the X, esp. if the stretch is not too large. But if it's large enough it's likely real. My mother in law, wife, and daughter in law all have an identical South Asian stretch straddling the centromere of the X (they have very little S.A. autosomal v alue, just like you). But Mc Donald feels it is genuine. Since it is "sticky" over the generations it could be pretty old. On the other hand he wasn't certain about a smaller "South Asian" which appeared on my daughter in law's X near the telomere. The same stretch was categorized as "Middle East" for my wife and "Europe" for my mother in law. A classic example of computer misdirection. I think in all cases this smaller stretch represents East European values for which the other labels are a proxy. Perhaps because of McDonald's sample populations. He has no Germans, Poles, or Ukrainians. Most of the time though his guesses are quite good.
                  I followed your advice and asked him. Here is his answer:

                  I wish I could help more on that! The X painting algorithm is poor.

                  Europeans frequently show Mideast and S. Asian blocks for no apparent reason ...

                  other than that somebody is from Eastern Europe ... as you are.



                  Doug McDonald

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                  • #10
                    That sounds about right... Of course everything changes if you have any sort of plausible paper trail, or a case based on evidence in chromo areas subject to extremely slow recombinations, or large autosomal chunks which cannot easily be viewed as noise. Otherwise, you flip a coin (:=))

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