Affy to Illumina conversions complete?

[JPHutchins]

And in that group of 100 kits, we are all going to get our missing Affy conversions!! ??

No I really understand that we are likely to lose many of our Affy matches due to the differences in the processes. but it was a thought.

[econnore]

No, it's not. There's still at the very least that group of 100 kits not converted.

Fair enough EXCEPT the FTDNA site says this:

We are pleased to announce that the conversion of all Family Finder results to the Illumina Omni Express platform is now complete. Please note, this means your Affymetrix results will be removed from the system on Tuesday, May 10th, and will no longer appear on your "myFTDNA" page.

[royfarnol]

If I remember correctly somewhere FTDNA was quoted as saying that the Affymetrix matches are "still matches".

Then why the haste to delete them? Might they not still be useful?

[Javelin]

Fair enough EXCEPT the FTDNA site says this:

Well, they're wrong. A hundred people who are waiting for their kits will tell you that. If you believe everything a website says, lord have mercy on you.

[JamesKelley]

A simple solution to deleting Affy results:

Create a small link saying something like:

"Outdated Data" to provide a download of the data and results.

I'm guessing there were some problems with the old data, and that is one reason to want to get rid of it. If there were no problems, then it is probably desirable to get rid of it for purposes of having a consistent experience for new testees.

One thing to put this into perspective. Most of the people who has taken the test is not as interested in the fine details as the forum users are. With that in mind, they will never be very interested in the old data. Since you -whoever you may be - are interested, you can download the data. Your download will stay current, since there are no more tests using the old system.

[djparlette]

Now that the conversion is complete, I have lost two Affy matches that are also matches with me at 23 and Me. I had been hoping that 3 or 4 of my top HIR Search matches who tested here, plus 4 or 5 of my matches from 23 and Me would show up as new matches on Illumina , But not one of them are an Illumina match. Have also noticed the new Illumina matches I have give NO surnames and NO gedcoms.

[mkdexter]

requested update on FB

I requested an update on the FTDNA FB page but no comment back yet.

I have received from two different matches, what is beginning to look like the boiler-plate answer as to why Affy matches are lost. It does not address the fact that so many have been lost but it looks like what I would expect to be the answer being sent via email:


Hello,

Thank you for your email. In most cases, the conversion from the Affymetrix platform to the Illumina Omni platform will not have a large effect on your Family Finder matches. The Illumina platform is based on a larger set of data points than Affymetrix, so it is likely that you receive a more comprehensive list of matches using our new Illumina system. However, because Affymetrix and Illumina use different, non-comparable sets of data points to make relationship predictions, this can alter your relationship predictions and can result in the loss of matches from the "speculative" relationship range. Just as your predictions may change from 4th to 5th cousin, your predictions may change from speculative relative (5th to distant) to outside of the "matching range."

In your case, your lost matches was already in a relationship range that would be considered "speculative" as a 5th to distant cousin. This means that you and they had just enough DNA in common to reach the threshold and predict you as a match with potential for a distant genealogical relationship under the Affymetrix system. Using the new Illumina set of data points, you do not share enough DNA to meet this threshold. At this distant a relationship, it is entirely possible to be related but not to inherit enough or large enough segments of DNA in common that we can distinguish that relationship from random noise. For more information about what proportion of DNA is typically inherited in common, and how likely it is enough DNA will be inherited in common for different degrees of relationship, see our FAQ entries here:

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17#624

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17#628

However, just because this set of data points did not detect you as a match, this does not mean that you are not relatives. If you and __ share common ancestral surnames, or if you have already found your shared ancestor, then you should certainly not discount this finding based on the Illumina test.

Please let me know if you have any questions or if there's anything else I can do for you.

Thanks again,

(name of the sender here.. varies depending on who sent the reply)


I would still like to see something stated on the website, or a bulk email, or FB.

MD

[dwight]

Thanks for sharing this.
I may be misremembering (happens several times a day on a good day) but I believe there are at least a couple of people who have posted here to the forum that among the Affy matches they have lost (thus far) were some cousins reckoned to be closer than "speculative". Didn't someone lose a third cousin or two? That would seem to not fit into the example described in this answer, no?

I requested an update on the FTDNA FB page but no comment back yet.

I have received from two different matches, what is beginning to look like the boiler-plate answer as to why Affy matches are lost. It does not address the fact that so many have been lost but it looks like what I would expect to be the answer being sent via email:


Hello,

Thank you for your email. In most cases, the conversion from the Affymetrix platform to the Illumina Omni platform will not have a large effect on your Family Finder matches. The Illumina platform is based on a larger set of data points than Affymetrix, so it is likely that you receive a more comprehensive list of matches using our new Illumina system. However, because Affymetrix and Illumina use different, non-comparable sets of data points to make relationship predictions, this can alter your relationship predictions and can result in the loss of matches from the "speculative" relationship range. Just as your predictions may change from 4th to 5th cousin, your predictions may change from speculative relative (5th to distant) to outside of the "matching range."

In your case, your lost matches was already in a relationship range that would be considered "speculative" as a 5th to distant cousin. This means that you and they had just enough DNA in common to reach the threshold and predict you as a match with potential for a distant genealogical relationship under the Affymetrix system. Using the new Illumina set of data points, you do not share enough DNA to meet this threshold. At this distant a relationship, it is entirely possible to be related but not to inherit enough or large enough segments of DNA in common that we can distinguish that relationship from random noise. For more information about what proportion of DNA is typically inherited in common, and how likely it is enough DNA will be inherited in common for different degrees of relationship, see our FAQ entries here:

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17#624

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=17#628

However, just because this set of data points did not detect you as a match, this does not mean that you are not relatives. If you and __ share common ancestral surnames, or if you have already found your shared ancestor, then you should certainly not discount this finding based on the Illumina test.

Please let me know if you have any questions or if there's anything else I can do for you.

Thanks again,

(name of the sender here.. varies depending on who sent the reply)


I would still like to see something stated on the website, or a bulk email, or FB.

MD

[swimmingly]

lost 3rd cousin

Yes, I did lose my confirmed third cousin. We know we are third cousins, and had recently determined that on paper before being matched on Affy. He was my closest match overall. All those SNPs must have been in the Affy spots and not in the Illumina.

[Yaffa]

Yes, I did lose my confirmed third cousin. We know we are third cousins, and had recently determined that on paper before being matched on Affy. He was my closest match overall. All those SNPs must have been in the Affy spots and not in the Illumina.

I lost a 4th cousin who I cant connect to on paper but that persons surnames were in the area of my family. FTDNA is claiming I lost that match because he is Jewish. Something is wrong because his family is colonial American like mine. I think Illumina may be off. My affy seemed to be more accurate

[LSSmith]

The "expected" result would be to share half of your mother's matches, but since she only has 7 total, and they are all distant, perhaps there's a threshold effect. Her matches might be just slightly over the threshold and yours just slightly under. If any of her matches are interested in pursuing this, I'd be glad to take a look at the raw data.

Thank you very much Ann. You have helped me in hte past and I truly appreciate it.

[Red Rover]

I lost a 4th cousin who I cant connect to on paper but that persons surnames were in the area of my family. FTDNA is claiming I lost that match because he is Jewish. Something is wrong because his family is colonial American like mine. I think Illumina may be off. My affy seemed to be more accurate

There was a situation like this over at 23andme with a lot of colonials and particularly Irish. After the Christmas sale they had the vast majority of their cousins suddenly become listed as distant. All my Irish matches became distant.

Could the same thing be happening here?

[Yaffa]

There was a situation like this over at 23andme with a lot of colonials and particularly Irish. After the Christmas sale they had the vast majority of their cousins suddenly become listed as distant. All my Irish matches became distant.

Could the same thing be happening here?

I dont know but I emailed my old match to let him know what FTDNA told me and the reason they are claiming we dont match anymore. Im waiting to see if he emails me back and if he got some strange matches with the new upgrade.

[swimmingly]

no Irish?

That is very interesting. I wonder what would cause that. I am now missing my Irish matches, including my third cousin. I know that I am part Irish.

[mkdexter]

There was a situation like this over at 23andme with a lot of colonials and particularly Irish. After the Christmas sale they had the vast majority of their cousins suddenly become listed as distant. All my Irish matches became distant.

Could the same thing be happening here?

No.

23andMe adjusted their algorithm after the onset of the V3 tests came back and then they readjusted it again about two weeks ago using a completely different method of prediction Ashkenazi ancestry.

The majority of Affy match losses are due to something else. While it is possible for some, it is only a small number of kits that have been affected by a FTDNA Ashkenazi adjustment recently.