Dr McDonald

[bkilpatrick]

Maybe that comes from your Lithuanian G-G-GM. My direct paternal line was from the Baltic area, resulting in my N1c1 haplogroup. About 40% of Lithuanians are N1, and another 40% R1a. You could have inherited some autosomal DNA from some distant Finno-Ugric ancestors.

Do you think the 8% ME from your PF is the same as the Asian block Dr McDonald is detecting? Another possibility is a Jewish ancestor.

I wonder if that's what could have happened with me? Small amount of Finno-Urgic ancestry on the Slovenian side of the family that shows up as NA with the McDonald analysis, ME on PF.

[Daniel72]

Maybe that comes from your Lithuanian G-G-GM. My direct paternal line was from the Baltic area, resulting in my N1c1 haplogroup. About 40% of Lithuanians are N1, and another 40% R1a. You could have inherited some autosomal DNA from some distant Finno-Ugric ancestors.

Do you think the 8% ME from your PF is the same as the Asian block Dr McDonald is detecting? Another possibility is a Jewish ancestor.

Well, yes maybe its from that area.
After all, the Grandfather whos grandmom was Lithuanian was born in East Prussia, near "Koenigsberg" (now named "Kaliningrad")

His own surname suggests Bohemian anchestry, several centuries ago. But his monthers maiden name is typical for East Prussia (Wich means, it must be from a lineage that lived in East Prussia since centuries).... And I just today had a "shared 47.99cM, longest block 16,63 - 3th - 5th cousin" with that surname who is from East Prussia....)

Actually, Dr.Mc Donald found a little bit he defined as "Middle Eastern" on Chromosom 6 and a even smaller bit he defined as "East-Asian" on Chromosom 4.

Dont know if this is the same that PF found.
Its however far different percentages.
His estamination is, that the whole non-European part is 1.5%
While PF estaminates 8%

[Yaffa]

Just got my results from Dr. McDonald, and I'm very grateful he had the time to review my data. This is what he sent me:

"You test best as (by hand)

32.7% Irish
44.4% Maya
8.3% Na-Dene
14.6% Ethiopian

or exactly as good

24.1% English
14.6% Jewish
42.1% Maya
11.3% Na-Dene
8% Mandenka"

As you can see, the 32.7% Irish is pretty close to the 24.1 + 14.6% English/Jewish percentages from the second set. My Illumina results seemed to absorb what Affy had reported as Middle East/North Africa.
I think there's that trend I had seen, matching results with family tradition -- Native American, European, Middle Eastern, African, and Asian. He didn't list South Asian, but that is my interpretation of the Na-Dene result, that it is Asian or Eurosian as I have no Na-Dene descent -- My NA ancestry is most likely from a tribe wholly unrelated to other tribes in Mexico and the US SW.

The Apache and the Comanche were in Mexico not only the US. There were a few US tribes that were also in Mexico

[nathanm]

Well, yes maybe its from that area.
After all, the Grandfather whos grandmom was Lithuanian was born in East Prussia, near "Koenigsberg" (now named "Kaliningrad")

His own surname suggests Bohemian anchestry, several centuries ago. But his monthers maiden name is typical for East Prussia (Wich means, it must be from a lineage that lived in East Prussia since centuries).... And I just today had a "shared 47.99cM, longest block 16,63 - 3th - 5th cousin" with that surname who is from East Prussia....)

That's near where my paternal line came from, the Suwalki region of Poland today. Dr McDonald's analysis of my dad's 23andMe results show a block of East Asian, but I didn't inherit it.

However, he detected a separate block of East Asian for me. Probably what PF is picking up as 6.28% South Asian. But the FAQ from FTDNA suggests that means I have Roma ancestry.

[kaiser86]

how to forward info to Dr. McDonald

I sent him 3 tests a few weeks ago to analyze. Does he analyze all the tests that are sent them to him? How long does it take? I truly appreciais time and effort so I don't want to write to him and ask these questions just want to know if I have done everything correctly. Plus I have some new results to send along.
Thanks

How does one forward info to Dr.McDonald for hm to analyze??

[brookes]

It's quite possible you inherited no DNA from a 5th great-grandmother. Is there anyone in the prior generation who could test? There's a better chance they'd still have a detectable block of Native American DNA.

Well I did test my Dad but only Y-DNA and MTDNA, this was before the Family Finder test was created. He'd be the one to have more of it if it does exist because it's on his line.

Could Dr. McDonald give me a breakdown between the Scots, English and German sub-populations of the Orcadian?

No, but his analysis will likely give more refined results, since he uses different reference populations. And those aren't sub-populations of Orcadian. It's just that the reference populations FTDNA uses has only Orcadian samples for the whole British Isles.

That seems so silly to me. How many people who sign up for DNA testing are Scots/English/Irish/German? Probably a large percentage. To have so few samples from the British Isles would seem to be be underserving a lot of their customers. I'm just sayin'

[GayeSherman]

How does one forward info to Dr.McDonald for hm to analyze??

Send your zipped raw data files to:

Doug McDonald <[email protected]>



I sent him my files on April 6th. He mentioned a "mail crash" so I'm wondering if I should send the files again.

Gaye
No longer just 100% European:
64% European (French, Orcadian, Spanish)
36% Middle East (Jewish)

Progress is being made.

[brookes]

Thanks for the info Gaye. I just emailed him, so we'll see what he says.

[nathanm]

Well I did test my Dad but only Y-DNA and MTDNA, this was before the Family Finder test was created. He'd be the one to have more of it if it does exist because it's on his line.

There should still be enough DNA in storage for an FF test. They keep it for 25 years.

That seems so silly to me. How many people who sign up for DNA testing are Scots/English/Irish/German? Probably a large percentage. To have so few samples from the British Isles would seem to be be underserving a lot of their customers. I'm just sayin'

FTDNA aren't the ones taking samples for the reference populations. I don't think they could, even if they wanted to. There are quite strict ethical rules for conducting human subject research. They only use reference samples published in reputable academic studies. However, they're currently using only the Human Genome Diversity Project (HGDP) and and a few other small studies. Lots of us are hoping they soon add larger, more recent studies, like the HapMap and 1000 Genomes projects. Some of the "hobbiests" (who are actually doing cutting edge work) have already started using those. But since FTDNA just upgraded to a completely new chip, and still needs to tweak the PF algorithm, I'm not expecting anything too soon.

[Daniel72]

Projects like Eurogenes or Dodecad are using more references.
Plus using the DNA of their members as new references for populations missing.

These are however small at the moment. At least for some populations.

But I know of more than 5 persons in the references for:

Irish, British, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, French, German, Polish, Lithuanian, Belorussian, North-Russian, "normal Russian", Romanian, Greek, Italian, Hungarian, Spanisch, Portuguisian, Basque, Sardinian.

The greatest white spots on the map,yet to fill is the Balkan peninsular.

Well, and if you look how these projects are able to defne me (see my sig)

Not "Orcadian" or something like that.
But it can definately adress me as "German".

the German reference set is only 8 persons, but amoung these it shows something like a small eastward draft for me. (wich seems to fit family lore)

Amoung these 8, I am
- the second least Western European one
- second most Baltic one
- most Finnish one
- least Russian one

That seems like an abarration towards the Baltic/Finnish region. Wich wonderfully fits to my Lithuanian GGGMom.

[brookes]

Well, Dr. McDonald sent me back the results and he says I am 100% English! So does this mean we are not (yet?) able to distinguish between English and Scottish, Irish, German or Swiss? Because I can definitely see that I would be 100% "English" if that includes all of the above. I guess I did not inherit any genes from my supposed NA 5th ggm - or she was not truly my GGM.

Here are the graphs he sent me.

[nathanm]

Well, Dr. McDonald sent me back the results and he says I am 100% English! So does this mean we are not (yet?) able to distinguish between English and Scottish, Irish, German or Swiss? Because I can definitely see that I would be 100% "English" if that includes all of the above. I guess I did not inherit any genes from my supposed NA 5th ggm - or she was not truly my GGM.

Here are the graphs he sent me.

He's explained elsewhere, and in replies to some people who've sent him their data, that his test is an average. The spot on the map reflects the various pulls by the different contributions in your DNA, e.g. the Scottish and Swiss components pulling in roughly opposite directions. Notice that the plot above is basically a map, with north to the right.

[Daniel72]

"So does this mean we are not (yet?) able to distinguish between English and Scottish, Irish, German or Swiss? Because I can definitely see that I would be 100% "English"

Well, we CAN distinguish between English and German.

I dont know why Dr.McDonald cant.
Well, except maybe on his MDS.

Look at mine:
Dr.McDOnalds claims me "98.5% English" and my green spot is even right in England:



Strange about this is, the MDS he did, shows me in quiet some distance to English:



Wich kind of matches my position in a EUROGENES PROJECT MDS:



All tose people between the British and German cloud are US-Americans.
And as you can see, there is a lot of space between the British and German cloud,w ich means, that at least for the most British and Germans, it is quiet easy to tell who is who.

[CorkyBean]

Average of locations

He's explained elsewhere, and in replies to some people who've sent him their data, that his test is an average. The spot on the map reflects the various pulls by the different contributions in your DNA, e.g. the Scottish and Swiss components pulling in roughly opposite directions. Notice that the plot above is basically a map, with north to the right.

I just got my results from Dr. McDonald. My spot on the map is on France. My mother's ancestors are 100% Swiss. Her Population Finder shows 30% Tuscan. Switzerland is a melting pot of German, French, and Italian so Tuscan is not surprising.

My father's ancestry is unknown but FF is showing strong English.

Average the English and the Swiss and you get France.

My question is - how do I read this (below)? It looks like it is giving different possible combinations to describe my ancestry. And that the top one is the most likely. Have any of you received results from Dr. McDonald that looked like this?

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Spain= 0.208 English= 0.792
English= 0.835 Tuscan= 0.165
English= 0.797 Italian= 0.203
French= 0.496 English= 0.504
English= 0.919 Sardinia= 0.081
French= 0.758 Irish= 0.242

Dr. McDonald said: This is basically English with a bit of more Continental in it.

Thanks,
Corky Bean

[bkilpatrick]

I'm glad you got your results, brookes.

Corkybean: I didn't get that kind of detailed population breakdown about my European ancestry. But my map looks very much like Daniel72's.

Dr. McDonald's comments were:

".....all-European with a highly variable mix of
Orkney/Irish and things farther east and south (from France to
Romania, or even, in small proportions, the Mideast out to Armenia."

This seems to sum it up:

"But all of these simply mean that you average from farther SE than north
England. The spot on the map is 38 miles NE of Great Yarmouth,
England (which I think is in the ocean)"

That gave me a laugh! So perhaps I can claim mermaid ancestry, if "my people" came from a spot in the ocean It brings home the point that this is a statistical average ("an average of locations" as corkybean writes) and not a statement about a particular geographic point of origin for my ancestors.

For me, the most interesting suggestion from Dr. McDonald continues to be this, when he looks at the chromosomes:

"......but there appear to be probably real, though small,
spots of Native American to the tune of 0.3%."