Dr McDonald

[Daniel72]

And still thats not what I want to know.
I want to know, what other than Germans had been part of my anchestors in the past 500 years? And how much of those?

I am still not really knowing what that GGGMom really had been, after more than 1000 Dollars spending in DNA Tests and beeing part of 1 Million projects :P

[ahernandez]

Well, if there is anything other than German, McDonald's analysis should pick it up where Pop Finder might've miss it. Have you submitted your raw data to him yet? It may take a while as he's swamped at the moment. Good luck. I hope you find something interesting.

[brookes]

Well, I'm excited - if he found someone's NA ancestry from 500 years ago, he should definitely be able to shed some light on my family history. I don't have his email so I PM'ed him asking if he wants me to submit now and get in line, or wait until things have calmed down a bit.

[Daniel72]

Well, if there is anything other than German, McDonald's analysis should pick it up where Pop Finder might've miss it. Have you submitted your raw data to him yet? It may take a while as he's swamped at the moment. Good luck. I hope you find something interesting.

Havnt send him yet.

What I know of Non-German anchestors:

1. one grandparents surname is Polish.
2. one grandparents surname is typical for Protestants that left Bohemia (West-Czechia) in the 16th and 17th century towards Germany.
3. One Great-Great-Grand Mother was actually "Non German speaking". My Grandfather (her grandson) believes her to be Lithuanian, but is not sure.

Eurogenes and Dodecad both, showed that the one thing in me, wich is "unusual" for Germans is a raised level of "North-East Asian". Higher even than Polish or Lithuanian average (more in a level that is average for say Swedes), so there is the question, where did this come from. How could this be from a Lithuanian GGGMom if Lithuanians themselfs even have less of that than me? That "Lithuanian" GGGM must have been full blooded Finn to leave a North-East Asian level like this in me. One of those really finnish Finns...

In one of these calculations I even got a 0.5% "Native American", but that seemed to be missinterpreted "North East Asian".

The first "New" PF seemed to agree to the things that Dodecad and Eurogenes found and said:
Over 90% Orcadian but slightly Italian and FINNISH.

But then they changed minds and turned the Italian/Finnish into "Middle Eastern".

Now, THIS does not fit with family lore at all. And its also the totaly oposite of what all other Projects say (Oposite in the meaning that the European countries in wich North-East Asian admixture is frequently observed (Scandinavia and North-East Europe), the Middle Eastern Admixture is the lowest in all of Europe)

So yeah, maybe I should try and see what Dr.Mcdonald finds and thinks where the source of whatever is.

[Javelin]

Eurogenes and Dodecad both, showed that the one thing in me, wich is "unusual" for Germans is a raised level of "North-East Asian". Higher even than Polish or Lithuanian average (more in a level that is average for say Swedes), so there is the question, where did this come from.

Looking at the Dodecad site it seems Germans, Poles and Lithuanians do not typically have NE Asian. You will find NE Asian pretty much from that area itself, all the way to the Balkans. You could expect it more in pretty much any other kind of Slav (such as Ukrainians, Croats etc.) than in Poles, plus among non-Slavs, you see it as far northwest as Finns and maybe Swedes, and as far southwest as the Balkans, probably Albanians.

Were you included here?

http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2010/11/fine-scale-east-eurasian-admixture.html

Also it is not entirely inconsistent, as you claim, because you can see Northeast Asian in Turks and Ashkenazi Jews, for example, as well as Finns. It can be hard to tell if this Northeast Asian is Uralic (maybe from Finland) or Altaic (Turkic).

[nathanm]

Hah, I don't know how he came up with the timeframe, maybe he was just throwing out a historical event for context, but your mathematical "norm" is off too for us, in 175 years there's only been 4 generations of my family not 7.

So it's all just estimates in the end.

Generations aren't measured in one's total lifespan, but the time between their birth and the birth of their children. Since many people have multiple children, the length of a generation varies. Plus, the age women can give birth is far more constrained than men fathering children.

Numerous studies have been conducted on the subject, with varying results. A 2005 article from Ancestry Magazine discusses some of the studies, and suggests using 33 years for men and 29 for women. A newer study posted on Dienekes' blog gave results of 31-32 years for men, 25-28 years for women, and a novel suggestion to use an intermediate generational length for autosomal DNA research: 28-30 years.

[nathanm]

How far back can Dr. McDonald's analysis go to find suspected NA ancestry? I have a 5th great-grandmother who is supposedly NA, but my PF results are 100% Western European (Orcadian) with 0.01% margin of error. The rest of my ancestry is Scots, English and German.

It's quite possible you inherited no DNA from a 5th great-grandmother. Is there anyone in the prior generation who could test? There's a better chance they'd still have a detectable block of Native American DNA.

Could Dr. McDonald give me a breakdown between the Scots, English and German sub-populations of the Orcadian?

No, but his analysis will likely give more refined results, since he uses different reference populations. And those aren't sub-populations of Orcadian. It's just that the reference populations FTDNA uses has only Orcadian samples for the whole British Isles.

[Daniel72]

Were you included here?

No. Thats too early.

Here is me:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4043/admix.jpg

Besides that, the results of a recent Eurogenes experiment was:

Probability of beeing French:
Me: 58%
Average German: 65%

Probability of beeing Lithuanian or Belorussian:
Me: 26%
Average German: 24%

Probability of beein Southern Italian or Greek:
Me: 10%
Average German: 10%

Probability of beeing Chuvash:
Me: 6%
Average GErman: 1%

[Daniel72]

Ok, its back from Dr.McDonalds

Thats what he says:

You test as essentially ... 98.5% ... English. The rest
is something easterly, impossible to tell what because it is
so small. The non-Euro spot on the chromosomes agrees
with this.

[ahernandez]

That's pretty cool, if a bit vague... So given your family history what eastery population do you think could've contributed to your results? Turks? Mongols? Any family oral tradition to help fill the gap?

[Daniel72]

That's pretty cool, if a bit vague... So given your family history what eastery population do you think could've contributed to your results? Turks? Mongols? Any family oral tradition to help fill the gap?

No family tradition would really explain Asian influence.

But there is one Turkish "match" in 23andMe....

The longest blocks list is like this:
(limited to people with 4 Grandparents from that country)

1. Norwegian 9.9cM
2. German 8.5cM
3. German 7.3cM
3. Poland 7.3 cM
3. Ukraine 7.3cM
4. Turkey 6.8cM <----------------
5. German 6.7cM
6. German 6.3cM
7. Denmark 6.2cM
8. Slovakia 6.0cM
9. German 5.8cM
10. Netherland 5.7cM

On the other hand, it seems quiet common to share more DNA with foreign people than with their own countrymen, like the latest experiment of Dienekes showed.

For Germans that was like this:

75% of the Germans (in Dodecad Project) share more DNA with at least 1 Polish person than with the closest other German.
70% of the Germans share more DNA with at least 1 Swedish person than with the closest German
68% of the Germans share more DNA with a British Person than with the closest German
65% of the Germans share more DNA with a Norwegian Person than with the closest German
62% Germans share more with an Irish than with an other German
53% Germans share more with a Mixed Slavic (usualy 50% German, 50% Slavic country) Person than with another German
49% Germans share more with a French than with a German
40% share more with Balkan people than with Germans
40% share more with Russians than with Germans
33% with Spanish
15% with Italians

Well, you get the idea...
Wich means, it seems pretty hard for a German, to share more SNP with another German than with half of Europe.

Wich seems to make "match by % of shared DNA" very unrelyable.

[MoberlyDrake]

This is interesting in the light of my results.

So, what is a German (DNA-wise)? It's been a long time since my college days, but, if I remember correctly from my Latin classes (which I may not!), the Romans weren't very clear on whether or not the Germans were Celts.

Carol Anne

[Daniel72]

This is interesting in the light of my results.

So, what is a German (DNA-wise)? It's been a long time since my college days, but, if I remember correctly from my Latin classes (which I may not!), the Romans weren't very clear on whether or not the Germans were Celts.

Carol Anne

Yes.
The ancient Greeks and Romans divided the northern Europe into Celts in the West and Skythians in the East.

The Germans where thought to be Celts.

It took them several centuries to recognize that there is a third party between Celts and Skythians: The Germans.

The Roman historian Tacitus then wrote something about the Germans.
Mentioned, that "Germania" is divided into North and South wich is seperated by the "Mare Germanicum" (Northsea). (he actually means Scandinavia and Germany)

Me mentiones the Swedes as the northern most of the "Germans".

Me mentiones a German tribe in what is now Slovakia as more or less the eastern most of the Germans and says, these apear to be mixed with Skythians, since their faces show the traces of those eastern peoples looks.

Interesting to mention is also, that Tacitus believes "Picts" to originate in Germania, because they have identical looks.

He mentiones Germanic people from the German Northsea coasts that "almost look like Britons" (and that in the 1th century! Angles and Saxons invaded Britain in the 6th century...)

Dienekes Dodecad Project had one experiment in wich he told his clustering software to take:
Irish, British, Norwegians, Swedes, Germans, Poles, Lithuanians, Belorussians and Russians and put them into 2 groups (kind of simulating the old GReek Idea of 2 kind of people in the North)

The result was

group 1:
Irish, British, Norwegians, Swedes, Germans
+ 1/3 of the Poles and all "half German/half Slavic country" mixes.

group 2:
Lithuanians, Belorussians, Russians and the other 2/3 of the Poles.

Showing that Celts and Germans cluster on one side, while Balts and Slavs cluster on the other side.

[LSSmith]

[QUOTE=dawer;324145]Just got my results from Dr. McDonald, and I'm very grateful he had the time to review my data. This is what he sent me:

QUOTE]

I get excited to read about people getting their results from Dr McDonald and even reading what he said. My sincere appreciation goes out to all who allow us to send in our results to them and then give some wonderful information. It was nice that Dr McDonald told us the reason for the delay and I was disheartened to hear about his mail crashing and losing results. However, I do feel like the little boy in the Music Man with Dr McDonald being the Wells Fargo wagon. Although it is nice to hear that you got your results I just keep singing:

O-ho the Wells Fargo Wagon is a-comin' down the street,

Oh please let it be for me!

O-ho the Wells Fargo Wagon is a-comin' down the street,

I wish, I wish I knew what it could be!

A little humor for this Saturday AM.

[nathanm]

No family tradition would really explain Asian influence.

Maybe that comes from your Lithuanian G-G-GM. My direct paternal line was from the Baltic area, resulting in my N1c1 haplogroup. About 40% of Lithuanians are N1, and another 40% R1a. You could have inherited some autosomal DNA from some distant Finno-Ugric ancestors.

Do you think the 8% ME from your PF is the same as the Asian block Dr McDonald is detecting? Another possibility is a Jewish ancestor.