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  • #61
    Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
    The Taino tribe of the islands per the US Government are extinct. DNA can prove our Government wrong. My Guess is either you descend from the Tiano and or possibly US Indian slaves that were taken to the islands

    http://www.healing-arts.org/spider/tainoindians.htm
    I agree that culturally they're extinct but like you said genetics proves that wrong as lots of Caribbean people still have Taino DNA (especially up in the remote mountains of Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, etc.)

    There's very little difference (genetically) between North American, Central American and South American natives as they're all descendants from a relatively small founding population that crossed over during the Ice Age. Having Pima and Maya in the database should be enough to pick up any substantial NA ancestry North Americans may have. I believe the problem is that most North American Native are mixed to begin with so over the generations the percentage shrinks from 20% to 10% to 5% to 2.5% until it's just autosomal noise and an mitochondrial haplogroup.

    As an aside, the Spanish have lots of Middle Eastern DNA in them (see my own percentages) as they have a long history of Phoenicians, Carthaginian, Jewish and Moorish/Muslim populations.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by ahernandez View Post
      I agree that culturally they're extinct but like you said genetics proves that wrong as lots of Caribbean people still have Taino DNA (especially up in the remote mountains of Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, etc.)

      There's very little difference (genetically) between North American, Central American and South American natives as they're all descendants from a relatively small founding population that crossed over during the Ice Age. Having Pima and Maya in the database should be enough to pick up any substantial NA ancestry North Americans may have. I believe the problem is that most North American Native are mixed to begin with so over the generations the percentage shrinks from 20% to 10% to 5% to 2.5% until it's just autosomal noise and an mitochondrial haplogroup.

      As an aside, the Spanish have lots of Middle Eastern DNA in them (see my own percentages) as they have a long history of Phoenicians, Carthaginian, Jewish and Moorish/Muslim populations.
      I posted that not all people in the Islands may descend from the Taino. You also have Indian slavery going to the Islands from the US and some in the Islands may descend from US tribes. The world may never know what tribe some descend from in the Islands because the US tribes are not giving up their DNA. Some of those tribes from the US taken into the Islands may also be classified extinct.

      I can tell you that Pima/Maya is not enough. To make a claim that all Indians are genetically the same and all should match the Pima/Maya is ridiculous.
      Without DNA testing every tribe in all of North America, South America and having all their samples, there is no way to comment on the full picture. I have heard many historians claim there were a lot more Indian here than the Europeans recorded. DNA is slowly proving this outside tribal enrollment.

      Just in general with Indian Mother lines. I can tell you my mother line migrated to the US after HVR1 and 2 on MT DNA. My Mother Indian line was in North America sometime with my FGS mutations. In order to know your mother line you need to test FGS on MT DNA and many wont spend the money. There is also no way to tell the difference between Asian and Indian unless people test FGS on MTDNA. Without having FGS there is no way to tell how many mother lines entered North America.

      I just spoke to my distant FF match who does have confirmed Indian ancestors in their family closer to the living and Indian ancestors from the US.

      On their PF they are 100 % European, On 23andme they are 1% Asian and Decodeme they have 18 % Asian. They too say their PF test is off but obviously you see that they who descend from a US tribe DO NOT MATCH Pima/Maya on PF

      Also with the Mex DNA project with the upgrade on Illumina everyone became slightly more Jewish. They know this is not accurate. Not all Spanish in Mexico were Jewish since Mexico is predominantly Catholic!!! My family in Tex/Mex was not or ever Catholic, Christian or Jewish. I only have record of them being in Mexico from the 1790's to 1870 when they move to TX.
      Last edited by Yaffa; 29 March 2011, 10:09 AM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
        Also with the Mex DNA project with the upgrade on Illumina everyone became slightly more Jewish. They know this is not accurate. Not all Spanish in Mexico were Jewish since Mexico is predominantly Catholic!!! My family in Tex/Mex was not or ever Catholic, Christian or Jewish. I only have record of them being in Mexico from the 1790's to 1870 when they move to TX.
        Well, I don't know how accurate it is but there could be explanations. One is that Iberia was settled a very long time ago by Phoenicians, who were probably very similar genetically to Jews, and also most Jews probably mostly have some Iberian ancestry.

        The thing is that Spain had Catholics, Jews, and Muslims getting along very well for maybe 800 years. There was bound to be some mixing. There were a very large number of Jews and Muslim Moors in Iberia, and some became Catholic and their descendants moved to New Spain, while others remained Jewish or Muslim and left for North Africa or Italy or Turkey, probably bringing Iberian genetics with them.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Javelin View Post
          Well, I don't know how accurate it is but there could be explanations. One is that Iberia was settled a very long time ago by Phoenicians, who were probably very similar genetically to Jews, and also most Jews probably mostly have some Iberian ancestry.

          The thing is that Spain had Catholics, Jews, and Muslims getting along very well for maybe 800 years. There was bound to be some mixing. There were a very large number of Jews and Muslim Moors in Iberia, and some became Catholic and their descendants moved to New Spain, while others remained Jewish or Muslim and left for North Africa or Italy or Turkey, probably bringing Iberian genetics with them.
          This is true and PF can not tell the difference between them. At the time the Spaniards invade here the Spanish Inquisition was going on in Europe. They just brought the Inquisition over here to the Indian tribes. They leave this out of history books in the US and call the Spaniards explorers. There are also R1b coming up in Mexico too and other haplogroups if you look at the Mex project. Not all of them come up haplogroup J -- http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
            This is true and PF can not tell the difference between them. At the time the Spaniards invade here the Spanish Inquisition was going on in Europe. They just brought the Inquisition over here to the Indian tribes. They leave this out of history books in the US and call the Spaniards explorers. There are also R1b coming up in Mexico too and other haplogroups if you look at the Mex project. Not all of them come up haplogroup J -- http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm
            Adding that so far the women in the Mex project are Mostly indigenous and many different mother lines

            http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...tion=mtresults

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            • #66
              A friend of mine gave me their results of PF, 23anme and Decodeme. The decodeme results best fits their ancestry though Y-MT DNA and paper. This person has confirmed African Indian and European.

              I got 100% European on FF ; on 23and me 1% African 99 European.
              Decode me 86% European 12% East Asian and 2 % African
              Their East Asian includes NA.

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              • #67
                Yes, the Map of Kinship and the ability to compare to sample populations around the world are both great, I hear, but $2K...

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Javelin View Post
                  Yes, the Map of Kinship and the ability to compare to sample populations around the world are both great, I hear, but $2K...
                  Yep so in other words for $2,000 you might actually get a % test that matches to your genealogy. So far the people I know who have tested PF, 23andme, and decodeme, decodeme seems to be the most accurate results to ones ancestry.

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                  • #69
                    Native Ancestry Issues: The Paper Trail and DNA

                    What I learned about our early American history wasn't taught in school. I know that one of my 5th great grandfathers contested the racial designation of mulatto very early on. The records of this are long gone since most were lost during the Civil War. Identifying Natives as mixed or mulatto was profitable. They could be taxed as such. I've tried desperately to trace his line, but haven't had any success. I'd hoped that DNA testing might prove him right, but I guess that's not going to happen. My first results indicated a little less than 12% ME. This dropped out with the newer test. Does anyone think it's worth trying another test with DNA Tribes or another service?

                    Thanks,
                    Davida

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by DavidaZ View Post
                      What I learned about our early American history wasn't taught in school. I know that one of my 5th great grandfathers contested the racial designation of mulatto very early on. The records of this are long gone since most were lost during the Civil War. Identifying Natives as mixed or mulatto was profitable. They could be taxed as such. I've tried desperately to trace his line, but haven't had any success. I'd hoped that DNA testing might prove him right, but I guess that's not going to happen. My first results indicated a little less than 12% ME. This dropped out with the newer test. Does anyone think it's worth trying another test with DNA Tribes or another service?

                      Thanks,
                      Davida
                      The only results I have seen so far to be more true to genealogy is Decodeme and right now its $2000 unless you get lucky and they run a special. DNA tribes has given Indian % to people that have tested with other companies that show no Indian. I would not trust it.

                      Yes they did have tax laws against the free people of color. My ancestors were fighting in petitions to abolish the tax laws.

                      Where were your ancestors?

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                      • #71
                        In and about Virginia. I don't know how familiar you are with the area, but one group was in the area of Louisa and Manakin Town. New Kent and Fluvanna were also mentioned. I am a Branham descendant. I also descend from the Langstons and Shepherds.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by DavidaZ View Post
                          In and about Virginia. I don't know how familiar you are with the area, but one group was in the area of Louisa and Manakin Town. New Kent and Fluvanna were also mentioned. I am a Branham descendant. I also descend from the Langstons and Shepherds.
                          I do know a little bit about New Kent. There were Indian Traders in that area. I have lines that were in Brunswick and Isles of Wight. I cant get further back but they were also in the Orange/Granville/ Chatham area of NC and is where they signed those petitions to abolish the extra tax laws against the free people of color. We also sign petitions against church tax. My family did not like the church of England!! I posted this for someone who was researching some surnames and I dont know if some of this will help you?

                          I also have an ancestor who does not match surname on DNA. He matches people 23/25 markers to Carter and Overton surnames from Louisa VA but my ancestor was born in NC and was 40 years older than all the people he does match on DNA at a distance that were from Louisa VA. He is a rogue. No proof of parents or siblings.

                          Indian Trader's Of VA-- John Moore , Richard Price, William Pettypool who was partners with Thomas Edwards and others.


                          See Links

                          http://amohkali.southeasterntrading....ers1710-18.htm

                          And link on Pettypool and others
                          http://www.mindspring.com/~baumbach/ppoole/ppoole3.htm



                          ADD___ We had Sheppards in Wilkes NC. The Pettypools above were also in Wilkes NC. My Ancestor who's DNA matches at a distance to Louisa VA was also in Wilkes
                          Last edited by Yaffa; 29 March 2011, 05:46 PM.

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                          • #73
                            It's a small world. I am researching a Moore line that traveled with my Gibson line when they left Louisa. They were in NC, Orange County I think, for a while. I have two new cousins via FF and we think this is our connection. Will enjoy reading what you have. We went to Louisa this past summer and found a lot of information at the historical society. I have to go back and search through all those records. The most helpful information was filed with a family that had no connection to us.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by DavidaZ View Post
                              It's a small world. I am researching a Moore line that traveled with my Gibson line when they left Louisa. They were in NC, Orange County I think, for a while. I have two new cousins via FF and we think this is our connection. Will enjoy reading what you have. We went to Louisa this past summer and found a lot of information at the historical society. I have to go back and search through all those records. The most helpful information was filed with a family that had no connection to us.
                              My Moore was in Orange 1792-1799 Tax and moved to Rowan than Wilkes. He was from Brunswick. My Moore's are in Group 28 of the Moore DNA project where I think your Moore's if I know your line are in Group 27. There were a few different Moore's in the area

                              I also have another Moore line from Granville Connected to my Tudors in Granville. Both the Tudor's and Charles Moore who we are related to are signing those petition. I have not seen this Charles Moore who signed the petition DNA test. There were also Charles Moore's in Orange and we dont know if Charles Moore in Orange and Charles Moore in Granville are related. We do know per tax and Land that some of Charles Moore of Granville lines were also in Chatham.


                              Are these yours? http://jgoins.com/moorefamily.htm

                              I wish I would get a DNA match that was in NC and not Louisa VA. I need to trace my ancestor out of NC and I cant.

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                              • #75
                                I suspect the latter Moore group with photos are somehow related. The Gibsons of Louisa are part of my family and one the Gibsons married a Moore. I only recently learned of the Moore line and we are still looking for the connection.

                                Well I wasn't really aware that my family made it to NC until recently. Hope your information isn't buried in a box somewhere. With the new batches coming in, you may find someone. I've had roughly 15 matches each test. Some of the original matches dropped out during the second test, but I have new ones.

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