Experiences with Family Finder and PF

[Yaffa]

They gave me Pima, but my best educated guess is that my NA ancestry is actually Purepecha from Mexico. I got 3% ancestry from South Asia (Indian). This matches family tradition that our paternal grandmother's family was from India.

The problem I had with my Affy results is that it said almost 50% of my ancestry is NA, which cannot true -- I know my maternal ancestry is European and NA, with deeper roots in the Middle East; and the Indian heritage came is from my father's side, so neither side could have given 48% NA. However, I think it is so high because the maternal side of my family has Mestizos of mixed races in all its branches and all these branches have partial NA ancestry. Maybe that threw the results off. I'm expecting Illumina to refine (lower) my NA results and refine my European results. I got almost 1/4 North East Europe. It may be true, but if it'd said North Europe it would be more believable -- all of my YDNA matches over 25 markers are to North Europeans. Affy showed NO Western Europe, if Illumina shows the same then I will know my family tradition of our Iberian ancestors being middle eastern has been validated.

However, I don't hold out much hope based on the headaches people are having with Illumina results -- we shall see.

Many of the indigenous people from Mexico seem to share some kind of markers found in the Pima/Maya. Your family in general in the right area to have that marker even tough your ancestors might be of a different tribe like mine

The people I posted about their results being AI. One is from NC/VA and the other of a NE American Indian tribe. Both these people with confirmed Indian ancestry through solid paper and Y and MT results to back it up. On PF both these people were classified as 100% European. On Decodeme one got 18% Asian and the other 12% Asian which matches to their genealogy. Many AI will match Asian DNA to a certain point. This also goes with Y and MT DNA. FGS on MT-DNA will tell the difference between Asian and Indian and certain markers on Y DNA will tell the difference between Asian and Indian.

Even us who have Indian ancestors from Mexico should also probably have some kind of Asian % and we dont. Also with Mexico and getting high Middle Eastern for many. Even if you look at the Mexico DNA project you will see how many different haplogroups there are on Y-DNA. Not all the people in Mex should be getting high Middle Eastern and many classified Jewish. Not to say that some were not crypto Jews but Mexico is a Catholic Country.

[dawer]

They gave me Pima, but my best educated guess is that my NA ancestry is actually Purepecha from Mexico. I got 3% ancestry from South Asia (Indian). This matches family tradition that our paternal grandmother's family was from India.

The problem I had with my Affy results is that it said almost 50% of my ancestry is NA, which cannot true -- I know my maternal ancestry is European and NA, with deeper roots in the Middle East; and the Indian heritage came is from my father's side, so neither side could have given 48% NA. However, I think it is so high because the maternal side of my family has Mestizos of mixed races in all its branches and all these branches have partial NA ancestry. Maybe that threw the results off. I'm expecting Illumina to refine (lower) my NA results and refine my European results. I got almost 1/4 North East Europe. It may be true, but if it'd said North Europe it would be more believable -- all of my YDNA matches over 25 markers are to North Europeans. Affy showed NO Western Europe, if Illumina shows the same then I will know my family tradition of our Iberian ancestors being middle eastern has been validated.

However, I don't hold out much hope based on the headaches people are having with Illumina results -- we shall see.

[Yaffa]

I just want to make a distinction between the use of the term Indian and Native American. Native American refers to the original inhabitants of America. America by the way is from Greenland to the Land of Fire. This continent is subdivided into regions: North, Central and South -- Mexico by the way is part of North America. There may be a better term, but Native American is a good one.

Indian refers to the people of India, a country located in South Asia. Hindu is used to refer to followers of Hinduism, so it is not a proper term for all people from India.

Through some rather interesting events, I happen to have both Native American and Indian Ancestry which was picked up by PF testing.

Perhaps this point only matters to me, but there you go.

The tribal members I do know prefer to be called by their tribe or American Indian (AI). They will not use the term Native American because anyone born here in the US is Native American. Indigenous to the Americas, Mexico, South America is also more appropriate.

Yours may be picked up by PF test. Only Part of mine is showing up. There are also others who's AI is not showing up and they have documented proof not hearsay they have AI ancestors closer to the living. Its being picked up on other tests that seem to be better suited to be giving out more accurate results to ones ancestry. So far for many PF is not accurate.

Did they give you a Pima % or Asian? If you got a Pima % then you match to those they do have samples for. I have Pima/Maya but my ancestors were of neither tribe.

[dawer]

Indian vs Native American

I just want to make a distinction between the use of the term Indian and Native American. Native American refers to the original inhabitants of America. America by the way is from Greenland to the Land of Fire. This continent is subdivided into regions: North, Central and South -- Mexico by the way is part of North America. There may be a better term, but Native American is a good one.

Indian refers to the people of India, a country located in South Asia. Hindu is used to refer to followers of Hinduism, so it is not a proper term for all people from India.

Through some rather interesting events, I happen to have both Native American and Indian Ancestry which was picked up by PF testing.

Perhaps this point only matters to me, but there you go.

[Yaffa]

Forgot to mention I have not seen anyone who does have CONFIRMED ( not rumor) Indian ancestry who get Asian % on PF

[Yaffa]

So they chose the Pima because of a Diabetes study? Sounds fishy but I'll let other people comment on that who are more in the know.

FTDNA does not have any Mesoamerican tribe DNA or US tribe DNA other than Pima and Maya. However, I doubt that Mesoamericans and US Native American tribes are that different.

No they have that specific sample of Indian DNA on record to use for matches on % tests because they were doing a diabetes study. Not all tribes are giving up their DNA to science.

The Pima have one of the highest rates of Diabetes -- - The Pima have given their DNA to science

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/pima/pathfind/pathfind.htm

And I already posted results for 2 people with confirmed Indian ( both through MT and Y DNA and Paper) in the US who get Asian % on Decodeme and not PF. Not one of these people gets Pima matches on PF. Those people who do have Indian ancestry in the US , the Indian is showing on other tests just not PF. Decodeme % matches their ancestry. I think they are proof that not all American Indian tribes will match the Pima.

[dawer]

They told me they have no US American Indian samples. Those Tribes may not match the samples they do have from Central and South America. I posted a few pages back why they have samples of Pima/Maya and it has to do with a diabetes study.

I do have other Indian in my family from the US. My Affy test showed more mixture than my Illumina. This test is far from being accurate for some of us who do have close admixture. I do have an FF match to someone from a US tribe. I should email them to see what their PF is reading

So they chose the Pima because of a Diabetes study? Sounds fishy but I'll let other people comment on that who are more in the know.

FTDNA does not have any Mesoamerican tribe DNA or US tribe DNA other than Pima and Maya. However, I doubt that Mesoamericans and US Native American tribes are that different.

[dawer]

I dont research Mexico in the 1900's. My ancestors left Mexico in 1870. By the 1900's you have immigrants coming into Mexico. Even people fleeing the holocaust. Frieda Kahlo. Father was Jewish http://www.fridakahlo.com/

I do happen to know professional genealogists and historians in Mexico who do a lot of research and also go look at the Mexico DNA project. These are people researching their ancestors before the 1900's. If you read Mexico records ( marriage, baptism) the race classifications are blood %. They will fluctuate from record to record as you get closer to the 18 th century because they can not keep up with who is mixing with who. Per DNA most have a higher % of Indian than Spanish. African % being at the bottom. Also not all people in Mexico descend from Mexican Indian tribes. In the 1800's you have many US tribes running back and forth across the US/MEX border . Apache, Comanche, Kickapoo, Cherokee just to name a few. My ancestors happen to not be Spanish

I'm originally from Mexico, and I am researching prior to 1900 in Mexico. Paternal family is immigrant; maternal family is Mexican - half European and Half Native American. We are not in disagreement, as you will see by reading my second reply. I want to make sure people don't think Mexico still uses blood %.

[Yaffa]

@Yaffa: My laptop is being repaired and I am lost without it. Much of my information is located there. I just realized that I still have an index of information from the Louisa Historical Society. I should be able to access it this weekend. Would you like a copy? It's an Excel spreadsheet. Now, having said that, the best information I have came from a box not associated with my family. Have to run and get dinner ready for the family. Will check in tomorrow.

Ill pm you and you can send.


Here is some land records in VA and a few other states that might be helpful to you. If you dont have the deed mapper program you cant load the land mapped out but you can use the index which gives some info on the land record.

http://www.directlinesoftware.com/pool.htm

[DavidaZ]

@Yaffa: My laptop is being repaired and I am lost without it. Much of my information is located there. I just realized that I still have an index of information from the Louisa Historical Society. I should be able to access it this weekend. Would you like a copy? It's an Excel spreadsheet. Now, having said that, the best information I have came from a box not associated with my family. Have to run and get dinner ready for the family. Will check in tomorrow.

[Yaffa]

I suspect the latter Moore group with photos are somehow related. The Gibsons of Louisa are part of my family and one the Gibsons married a Moore. I only recently learned of the Moore line and we are still looking for the connection.

Well I wasn't really aware that my family made it to NC until recently. Hope your information isn't buried in a box somewhere. With the new batches coming in, you may find someone. I've had roughly 15 matches each test. Some of the original matches dropped out during the second test, but I have new ones.

I do have some people on my Affy that have Moore in their lines. They may not have been upgraded yet???? The problem with my lines of Moore is one is my 6th great grandfather and the other Moore line is related to my Tudor 6th great grandfather. Both My Moore and Tudor direct male lines have Y-DNA tested but I am missing their wives. This is too far back on my tree to make any connections through FF. I need to get MT DNA on their wives. My male lines are Europen but them signing FPC petitions specifically about extra tax on behalf of wives and children who were FPC makes me wonder who their wives were. I have not located all the tax to know if they were charged extra tax on their wives and children.

[DavidaZ]

I suspect the latter Moore group with photos are somehow related. The Gibsons of Louisa are part of my family and one the Gibsons married a Moore. I only recently learned of the Moore line and we are still looking for the connection.

Well I wasn't really aware that my family made it to NC until recently. Hope your information isn't buried in a box somewhere. With the new batches coming in, you may find someone. I've had roughly 15 matches each test. Some of the original matches dropped out during the second test, but I have new ones.

[Yaffa]

It's a small world. I am researching a Moore line that traveled with my Gibson line when they left Louisa. They were in NC, Orange County I think, for a while. I have two new cousins via FF and we think this is our connection. Will enjoy reading what you have. We went to Louisa this past summer and found a lot of information at the historical society. I have to go back and search through all those records. The most helpful information was filed with a family that had no connection to us.

My Moore was in Orange 1792-1799 Tax and moved to Rowan than Wilkes. He was from Brunswick. My Moore's are in Group 28 of the Moore DNA project where I think your Moore's if I know your line are in Group 27. There were a few different Moore's in the area

I also have another Moore line from Granville Connected to my Tudors in Granville. Both the Tudor's and Charles Moore who we are related to are signing those petition. I have not seen this Charles Moore who signed the petition DNA test. There were also Charles Moore's in Orange and we dont know if Charles Moore in Orange and Charles Moore in Granville are related. We do know per tax and Land that some of Charles Moore of Granville lines were also in Chatham.


Are these yours? http://jgoins.com/moorefamily.htm

I wish I would get a DNA match that was in NC and not Louisa VA. I need to trace my ancestor out of NC and I cant.

[DavidaZ]

It's a small world. I am researching a Moore line that traveled with my Gibson line when they left Louisa. They were in NC, Orange County I think, for a while. I have two new cousins via FF and we think this is our connection. Will enjoy reading what you have. We went to Louisa this past summer and found a lot of information at the historical society. I have to go back and search through all those records. The most helpful information was filed with a family that had no connection to us.

[Yaffa]

In and about Virginia. I don't know how familiar you are with the area, but one group was in the area of Louisa and Manakin Town. New Kent and Fluvanna were also mentioned. I am a Branham descendant. I also descend from the Langstons and Shepherds.

I do know a little bit about New Kent. There were Indian Traders in that area. I have lines that were in Brunswick and Isles of Wight. I cant get further back but they were also in the Orange/Granville/ Chatham area of NC and is where they signed those petitions to abolish the extra tax laws against the free people of color. We also sign petitions against church tax. My family did not like the church of England!! I posted this for someone who was researching some surnames and I dont know if some of this will help you?

I also have an ancestor who does not match surname on DNA. He matches people 23/25 markers to Carter and Overton surnames from Louisa VA but my ancestor was born in NC and was 40 years older than all the people he does match on DNA at a distance that were from Louisa VA. He is a rogue. No proof of parents or siblings.

Indian Trader's Of VA-- John Moore , Richard Price, William Pettypool who was partners with Thomas Edwards and others.


See Links

http://amohkali.southeasterntrading.com/sccommisioners1710-18.htm

And link on Pettypool and others

http://www.mindspring.com/~baumbach/ppoole/ppoole3.htm

ADD___ We had Sheppards in Wilkes NC. The Pettypools above were also in Wilkes NC. My Ancestor who's DNA matches at a distance to Louisa VA was also in Wilkes