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  • The Riddler
    replied
    Khazaria,

    thanks much again! you did a lot of work for me. Thanks! it is very nice that you bring your knowlegde in this forum.

    3 groups of Ashkenazic Jews that i match for shore. Yes, it is a succes.
    Now is a lot to do. I think i will search the names and regions of the Ashkenazim in each cluster trying to link the conections.
    I hope to have succes and find the key of the clusters. It would be great.

    I will inform the forum how it works, maybe somebody is/will be in the same situation or it is just interesting to follow this story.

    Leave a comment:


  • khazaria
    replied
    The Riddler,

    Below is a summary of what I can confirm based on the data you sent me plus extra data I found today:

    1. You match a large cluster of Ashkenazic Jews on chromosome 8 from 94-101 million in Family Finder and GEDmatch. A pair of these matches in GEDmatch triangulates with each other in the same place.

    2. You match a large cluster of Ashkenazic Jews on chromosome 12 from 20-45 million in Family Finder and GEDmatch. This is divided into two main sections, one from 20-31 million and the other from 31-45 million. 5 of your matches share both sections, but the majority share only one of the sections. The first section is much more prevalent, and triangulation among a dozen of its carriers was confirmed in that section. There is one person with Spanish first and last names in that first section's matches.

    3. You match at least 12 Ashkenazic Jews on chromosome 16 from 47-54 million in Family Finder and GEDmatch.
    I found 5 relevant matches in this area in GEDmatch and was able to triangulate them with each other.

    So it's a success. More details are in the email I sent you.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Riddler
    replied
    Dear Khazaria,

    i am very glad you are the Author of the book, i will read it next...very glad and honored to having you as support. I will take your advice/contact.

    I never thought of the frankist conection, very interesting and impressive your knowledge.Thank you.

    I took a first look to the Gesher Galicia site. I found, (for the first time) under „all galicia database“, the name of my grandmothers family ( Cherewko/Czerewka) in conection with the“Podhajce Josephine Survey (1787) database „ i just have to search if the 15 listed names were jewish families.Under Families data there is no „Cherewka“, so, just maybe.

    Your analysis are very clear, yes it seems to me that my matches came through the common jewish ancestors. All the groups are matching on the same segment of the one or other chromosome. The one group is with scandinavians, then it turns out they have jewish ancestors. I dindt expect this, i thought they are matches from who knows wich scandinavian great great greatfather/mother i not even have knowledge.

    I will read the articles, shore they are interesting.

    Thank You

    Leave a comment:


  • khazaria
    replied
    Many of the Jews who were baptized into Christianity in the 1750s-1760s were from Podolia, adjacent to Galicia, according to Gershom Scholem's article "Frank, Jacob, and the Frankists" in Encyclopaedia Judaica, 2nd edition (2007).

    Ashkenazic Catholics sometimes adopted Polish surnames with particular characteristics that were common among converts.
    Last edited by khazaria; 23 September 2019, 05:08 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • khazaria
    replied
    Originally posted by The Riddler View Post
    To Galicia: the ancestors of my „big jewish matches“ are on a line between Krakow and Lwiw.
    Dear The Riddler,

    Your statement that your "big Jewish matches" have ancestors from Galitzia fits the most common scenario for Jewish DNA into Christian Poles, Rusyns, and Ukrainians. Your longer segments indicate closer relatives. I assume your matches are caused by having shared Jewish ancestors instead of shared Slavic ancestors.

    Some Jewish members of the radical Frankist sect formally converted to Roman Catholicism in Lviv in the 1750s and 1760s and were given Polish first and last names. Most of those Jews were Ashkenazim, and some were mixed Ashkenazic+Sephardic.

    The Frankist ideology was already in conflict with traditional rabbinical Judaism (Mitnagim and Hasidim), but the most dramatic break between the groups came as soon as the Frankists converted to Catholicism. Jewish families unfortunately completely rejected their own children when they converted, and considered them as if they were dead.

    I did not find cases of Ashkenazim Catholics reverting back to Judaism. So, for them, it was a permanent change. But some of them in Warsaw married fellow Ashkenazic Catholics in the second half of the 18th century, even while many of those further south quickly married Slavic Catholics.

    The lack of subsequent contacts between Ashkenazic Jews and Ashkenazic Catholics led to the common situation where descendants of the latter had no knowledge of having any Jewish roots.

    Gesher Galicia publishes a quarterly newsletter called "The Galitzianer" that might be interesting to you.

    Because your Jewish ancestors lived before most Galitzian Jews obtained permanent surnames, it would probably not help you to read the books on Galitzianer Jewish surnames and family trees and vital records, except out of general interest. The first surnames were assigned to Galitzianer Jews in the years 1785-1787 and almost all of them were artificial German names, an example being Weisblum given to Rabbi Elimelech of Lizhensk shortly before his death in March 1787 in southeastern Poland. Only very few Galitzianer Jews had surnames before 1785 because only rabbinical families and Sephardic Jews liked to use surnames. Your own Ashkenazic ancestors instead had names like "Reuven son of Eli".

    It does seem that many of your Mizrahi Jewish, Sephardic Jewish, Italian, Spanish, Latin American matches could be real and in many/most cases connected to shared Jewish ancestors. You are exactly right that you can group and stack all your Jewish matches on particular segment areas of the chromosomes to reach a common genetic ancestor, especially for the segment with 200 matches, but be sure to ask some of your matches if they match the other matches in the same chromosomal area where you do, to be sure there is true triangulation in all directions. If you want me to look at the work you are doing in Family Finder and GEDmatch, you can contact me by private message, and I will keep the details confidential.

    There are some good academic studies out there. Perhaps you want to read the article "Jewish Conversions to Catholicism in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth of the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries" by Magdalena Teter in the journal Jewish History, Vol. 17, No. 3 (2003), pages 257-283. I have read some of Teter's writings and they are very useful. Also Pawel Maciejko's article "Frankism" in the YIVO Encyclopedia of Jews in Eastern Europe.

    Originally posted by The Riddler View Post
    Do you know this book? „The Jews of Khazaria“ ? Is there something for the Jews of Galicia, eastern Europe or Ukraine?
    Yes, I know that book very well... because I wrote it.
    In the Third Edition of The Jews of Khazaria, early Jews in the Galicia region of southeast Poland and southwest Ukraine are discussed mainly on pages 190, 192, and 193.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Riddler
    replied
    Khazaria,

    thank you very much. You did help me...and you know a lot about jewish life. Thats what i like.


    To Galicia: the ancestors of my „big jewish matches“ are on a line between Krakow and Lwiw.
    But i have jewish matches in Lithuania, Sweden, Hungary, Romania, Ukraina.

    Sephardic: yes, i have a few mizrachi and sephardic matches..then jewish/part jewish matches from France;Italy... Greece, Spain and latin America just a few.

    I will search the sites you give me, they look very interesting.

    I hope to match with the Y and mtdna. Haplogroup yes would be nice. I am not just carrier for some middle eastern disseases so maybe for the haplo to :-)

    At the moment i am working on some groups who are all matching on different segments of the chromosomes, think that could for each group a common ancestor back in time. Then ill will put the names and towns/regions togheter so i have a perspective where are crossing lines between my cousins. Can You sugest me some sites for genealogy? where i can search for names,trees and so on.Thanks. Do you know this book? „The Jews of Khazaria“ ? Is there something for the Jews of Galicia, eastern Europe or Ukraine? Thanks

    Shalom



    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle



    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 24.71
    2 Baltic 19.91
    3 Eastern_Euro 15.37
    4 West_Med 12.12
    5 Atlantic 10.58
    6 East_Med 6.67
    7 West_Asian 6.29
    8 Red_Sea 2.15
    9 Sub-Saharan 1.12
    Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
    15 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Moldavian @ 7.676249
    2 Hungarian @ 7.948977
    3 Croatian @ 10.156765
    4 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 10.659346
    5 Ukrainian @ 11.351368
    6 Serbian @ 12.081923
    7 East_German @ 12.575735
    8 South_Polish @ 12.585180
    9 Austrian @ 14.027288
    10 Romanian @ 15.318795
    11 Polish @ 15.628337
    12 Finnish @ 16.638632
    13 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17.269789
    14 Southwest_Finnish @ 17.559242
    15 Southwest_Russian @ 17.582058
    16 Russian_Smolensk @ 17.833258
    17 East_Finnish @ 18.031769
    18 Bulgarian @ 18.573351
    19 West_German @ 19.035259
    20 Estonian @ 19.051514

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Hungarian +50% Moldavian @ 6.732376


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Moldavian +25% Ukrainian +25% West_German @ 6.121839


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
    1 Greek_Thessaly + North_Swedish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 6.057974
    2 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian + West_German @ 6.061414
    3 Greek_Thessaly + North_Swedish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.093939
    4 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_German @ 6.112656
    5 Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian + West_German @ 6.121839
    6 Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + North_Swedish + Ukrainian @ 6.156331
    7 Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_German @ 6.190137
    8 Greek_Thessaly + North_Swedish + Ukrainian_Lviv + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.193099
    9 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + Swedish @ 6.227312
    10 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_Norwegian @ 6.253374
    11 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Norwegian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.256873
    12 Moldavian + Moldavian + Moldavian + North_Swedish @ 6.268966
    13 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + West_Norwegian @ 6.276245
    14 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Swedish + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.287850
    15 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + Norwegian @ 6.324801
    16 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian + West_Norwegian @ 6.329358
    17 Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + North_Swedish + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.335660
    18 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Norwegian + Ukrainian @ 6.339238
    19 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Swedish + Ukrainian @ 6.344753
    20 Greek_Thessaly + Swedish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 6.349663






    Dodecad V3 4-Ancestors Oracle


    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 West_European 36.08
    2 East_European 23.21
    3 Mediterranean 23.15
    4 West_Asian 10.72
    5 Southwest_Asian 3.80
    6 South_Asian 1.42
    Finished reading population data. 227 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Slovenian_Xing @ 4.565683
    2 Hungarians_Behar @ 5.494026
    3 Balkans_Dodecad @ 14.929719
    4 Romanians_14_Behar @ 18.023922
    5 German_Dodecad @ 18.466152
    6 CEU_HapMap @ 22.151871
    7 N._European_Xing @ 22.253466
    8 Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 23.162369
    9 Mixed_Slav_Dodecad @ 23.413513
    10 Polish_Dodecad @ 23.587372
    11 Orcadian_HGDP @ 24.099457
    12 Orkney_1000 Genomes @ 24.385029
    13 Tuscan_Xing @ 25.451746
    14 Tuscan_Henn @ 25.717487
    15 TSI_HapMap @ 26.293604
    16 French_Dodecad @ 27.217243
    17 French_HGDP @ 27.586761
    18 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 28.058470
    19 FIN_1000Genomes @ 28.399555
    20 Russian_Dodecad @ 29.347792

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% C_Italian_Dodecad +50% Finnish_Dodecad @ 3.963722


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% German_Dodecad +25% Lithuanians_Behar +25% Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 2.463830


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++
    1 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.495337
    2 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.497762
    3 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.537480
    4 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.549761
    5 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad @ 1.562245
    6 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Orcadian_HGDP + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.568102
    7 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + Cornwall_1000 Genomes + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.576745
    8 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.600724
    9 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + N._European_Xing + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.601997
    10 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Isles_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.641280
    11 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + Lithuanian_Dodecad @ 1.655943
    12 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Belorussian_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.677041
    13 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Belorussian_Behar + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.704931
    14 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + French_HGDP + Lithuanian_Dodecad + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.715834
    15 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.745399
    16 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Isles_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.745887
    17 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.753236
    18 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Dutch_Dodecad + Hungarians_Behar @ 1.753316
    19 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + Cornwall_1000 Genomes + Lithuanian_Dodecad @ 1.756746
    20 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Orcadian_HGDP + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.761043


    Ancient Eurasia K6 4-Ancestors Oracle



    gedrosia K6 Oracle

    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 41.64
    2 Natufian 38.31
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.21
    4 East_Asian 1.85
    Finished reading population data. 136 populations found.
    6 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Croatian @ 1.895112
    2 Hungarian @ 2.331711
    3 French @ 3.435584
    4 Czech @ 4.671801
    5 English @ 4.943013
    6 Romanian @ 5.101997
    7 Ukrainian @ 5.797978
    8 Scottish @ 5.991362
    9 Spanish @ 6.270710
    10 Norwegian @ 6.646529
    11 Bulgarian @ 7.035609
    12 Icelandic @ 8.518777
    13 Europe_LNBA @ 9.494035
    14 Basque @ 10.368228
    15 Estonian @ 11.605507
    16 Albanian @ 11.719180
    17 Lithuanian @ 12.451298
    18 Russian @ 12.775937
    19 Greek @ 13.302324
    20 Finnish @ 13.773493

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Czech +50% Romanian @ 0.996004


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Basque +25% Kumyk +25% Lithuanian @ 0.908107


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Adygei + Basque + Basque + Lithuanian @ 0.858882
    2 Basque + Basque + Kumyk + Lithuanian @ 0.908107
    3 Albanian + Czech + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 0.922647
    4 Basque + Cypriot + Estonian + Lithuanian @ 0.939912
    5 Albanian + Czech + Czech + Hungarian @ 0.949947
    6 Czech + Czech + Romanian + Romanian @ 0.996004
    7 Hungarian + Icelandic + Romanian + Romanian @ 1.005925
    8 Albanian + English + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.030198
    9 Albanian + Czech + Hungarian + Ukrainian @ 1.030869
    10 Czech + English + Romanian + Romanian @ 1.038348
    11 Albanian + Hungarian + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.046611
    12 Albanian + Hungarian + Hungarian + Icelandic @ 1.048209
    13 Basque + Cypriot + Estonian + Estonian @ 1.052663
    14 Czech + Estonian + French + Italian_South @ 1.061948
    15 Albanian + French + French + Russian @ 1.069374
    16 Albanian + English + Hungarian + Ukrainian @ 1.075061
    17 Croatian + Czech + Hungarian + Romanian @ 1.076692
    18 Hungarian + Hungarian + Italian_South + Lithuanian @ 1.077172
    19 English + Finnish + French + Italian_South @ 1.077815
    20 Albanian + Albanian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian @ 1.083608
    Last edited by The Riddler; 22 September 2019, 04:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • khazaria
    replied
    The Riddler,

    I like the details on your ancestry and your matches that you posted here. They do fit within the scenarios we know of. In your case, you inherited your Jewish DNA segment(s) from your ancestors from Poland or Ukraine or both. Your Jewish ancestors belonged to the Galitzianer subgroup of Ashkenazim which spoke a different dialect of Yiddish than other Jews and which had some differences in their cuisine and way of life. The Gesher Galicia genealogy group focuses on this heritage.

    Yes, I did find that a small amount of Sephardic ancestry mixed in with the predominant Ashkenazic ancestry in some of the Christian families from close to your mother's region, but a little more to the north. Do you have any Spanish or Latin American DNA matches?

    If you are lucky, you - or a close relative - will be able to find your Jewish ancestor through Y-DNA or mtDNA testing, but those represent only a small portion of your total ancestry so you are more likely to carry totally Christian haplogroups. That is why you did the right thing by testing your autosomal DNA with Family Finder and GEDmatch, to see the maximum possible types of matches.

    AncestryDNA and especially 23andMe report Jewish DNA more reliably (less false positives and less false negatives) than MyHeritageDNA and DNA.Land do. If you test with 23andMe or AncestryDNA, you would find even more hundreds of Ashkenazic cousin matches, beyond the many you already have access to. Whether you really need to see all of them is your choice.

    In the Eurogenes K36 calculator, the Israelite portion of your Jewish ancestry would form part or all of your scores for following elements: 2.07% Arabian, 2.4% East Mediterranean, and 0.5% Near Eastern (but 0% Armenian). That would depend on whether you got any of those elements from your Magyar or Romanian ancestors. They are usually not found in Poles or Lithuanians.

    HarappaWorld's oracle suggests that you are closest overall to the Magyar people, and much more distant from Romanians and Ukrainians, and that a minor element is pulling part of your ancestry towards southern Europe, the southern Caucasus, and the Middle East including Jewish population samples.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Riddler
    replied
    About Matching 200 people on the same segment

    Thank You very much for your post

    The surname of both mother and father families changed all over the time. almost every 2 generations, that make it harther to track back in time.

    i am from Satmar (today Romania) earlier Austro-Hungary. The town is bether known from the "Satmar Jews".
    My mothers family is from Zakarpatia- Ukraine, but they were moving all the time. so Ukraine-Galicia and Polish Galicia are homeland over the last 200 Years, but no papers.
    My fathers family is from the Satmar area for the last 150 years. Maybe some south european (sephardic?) influence.
    Both side of my family are intermixed ukrainian, magyars, romanian, lithuan, polish...

    The full jewish matches are back in time all somewhere in south Galicia, so it make sense.Thanks


    Wich company would help me bether with the dna test? ancestry, 23and me? FTDNA running Y and mtdna

    gedmatch

    K36
    Population
    Amerindian -
    Arabian 2.07 Pct
    Armenian -
    Basque 1.11 Pct
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 5.62 Pct
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 6.92 Pct
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 18.59 Pct
    East_Med 2.40 Pct
    Eastern_Euro 13.61 Pct
    Fennoscandian 2.17 Pct
    French 6.56 Pct
    Iberian 6.75 Pct
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 6.13 Pct
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern 0.50 Pct
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 8.40 Pct
    North_Caucasian 3.17 Pct
    North_Sea 7.29 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian 2.24 Pct
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural -
    West_African 0.71 Pct
    West_Caucasian 0.94 Pct
    West_Med 4.82 Pct
    Jtest
    Population
    SOUTH_BALTIC 21.68 Pct
    EAST_EURO 14.06 Pct
    NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 17.14 Pct
    ATLANTIC 15.57 Pct
    WEST_MED 10.79 Pct
    ASHKENAZI 3.89 Pct
    EAST_MED 5.46 Pct
    WEST_ASIAN 7.13 Pct
    MIDDLE_EASTERN 2.64 Pct
    SOUTH_ASIAN 0.85 Pct
    EAST_AFRICAN -
    EAST_ASIAN -
    SIBERIAN 0.34 Pct
    WEST_AFRICAN 0.45 Pct
    Harappa world
    Population
    S-Indian 0.32 Pct
    Baloch 8.86 Pct
    Caucasian 15.74 Pct
    NE-Euro 45.35 Pct
    SE-Asian -
    Siberian -
    NE-Asian 0.99 Pct
    Papuan -
    American -
    Beringian 0.80 Pct
    Mediterranean 23.26 Pct
    SW-Asian 3.69 Pct
    San -
    E-African -
    Pygmy 0.98 Pct
    W-African -
    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 NE-Euro 45.35
    2 Mediterranean 23.26
    3 Caucasian 15.74
    4 Baloch 8.86
    5 SW-Asian 3.69

    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 hungarian_behar @ 4.658032
    2 slovenian_xing @ 6.336905
    3 serbian_harappa @ 8.710015
    4 n-european_xing @ 13.921301
    5 romanian-a_behar @ 13.949868
    6 french_hgdp @ 15.027160
    7 ukranian_yunusbayev @ 15.164544
    8 utahn-white_1000genomes @ 15.422071
    9 utahn-white_hapmap @ 15.463328
    10 bulgarian_yunusbayev @ 16.452385
    11 british_1000genomes @ 17.553728
    12 orcadian_hgdp @ 19.623859
    13 mordovian_yunusbayev @ 21.290821
    14 belorussian_behar @ 21.699469
    15 russian_behar @ 22.365850
    16 italian_hgdp @ 22.782585
    17 russian_hgdp @ 25.074886
    18 spaniard_behar @ 25.486320
    19 chuvash_behar @ 26.294981
    20 spaniard_1000genomes @ 26.780470

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% n-european_xing +50% romanian-a_behar @ 4.032809


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% lithuanian_behar +25% spaniard_1000genomes +25% turk-kayseri_hodoglugil @ 2.355965


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 ashkenazy-jew_behar + lithuanian_behar + orcadian_hgdp + serbian_harappa @ 1.884442
    2 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + utahn-white_hapmap + utahn-white_hapmap @ 2.026419
    3 armenian_yunusbayev + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.082663
    4 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + utahn-white_hapmap @ 2.086008
    5 armenian_behar + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.131552
    6 ashkenazy-jew_behar + british_1000genomes + lithuanian_behar + serbian_harappa @ 2.136158
    7 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + orcadian_hgdp @ 2.157838
    8 ashkenazi_harappa + lithuanian_behar + orcadian_hgdp + serbian_harappa @ 2.169369
    9 ashkenazi_harappa + british_1000genomes + lithuanian_behar + serbian_harappa @ 2.184186
    10 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + utahn-white_1000genomes + utahn-white_hapmap @ 2.184264
    11 azerbaijan-jew_behar + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.201758
    12 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + utahn-white_1000genomes @ 2.209681
    13 british_1000genomes + cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing @ 2.214330
    14 french_hgdp + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + turk-istanbul_hodoglugil @ 2.242928
    15 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + n-european_xing @ 2.265263
    16 armenian_yunusbayev + basque_hgdp + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar @ 2.270449
    17 belorussian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 + turk_behar @ 2.310374
    18 georgia-jew_behar + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.320998
    19 azerbaijan-jew_behar + basque_hgdp + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar @ 2.322737
    20 orcadian_hgdp + romanian-a_behar + romanian-a_behar + ukranian_yunusbayev @ 2.331292

    Leave a comment:


  • khazaria
    replied
    What is your own known recent ancestry? Your surname is found among Germans, Dutch, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, and Slovaks... is it one of those? Do you also have a second kind of ancestry, through your mother for example, like Polish?

    But a segment of relatively short length with so many matches would date before the 18th century, earlier than a common ancestor could be identified in vital records, because there are no vital records in most Ashkenazic communities before the first decades of the 19th century. Typical ancestral connections from early times that can be found by intact autosomal DNA segments shared between Jewish and non-Jewish matches include:
    Jewish ancestry in Western Ukrainians
    Jewish ancestry in Slovakian Rusyns (not widespread)
    Jewish ancestry in Southeastern Poles
    Polish ancestry in Jews
    Jewish ancestry in East Prussian Germans (not widespread)
    Jewish ancestry in Southern Italians and Sicilians
    Jewish ancestry in Spaniards
    Spanish ancestry in Jews (not widespread)

    Focus on your full Ashkenazic matches.

    Also, the ethnicity estimates from MyHeritageDNA and DNA.Land are not the most accurate around.
    Last edited by khazaria; 17 September 2019, 11:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Riddler
    started a topic Matching 200 people on the same segment

    Matching 200 people on the same segment

    Hi,

    i am new here, hope this is the right place to put my question hoping somebody can help me, give me an advice.

    I have just family finder at the moment, upload from myheritage. I am the only one in the family who is interested for genealogy.

    On FTDNA I match 1.555 people. Something about 80% are jewish, partly or full.
    I am matching a lot of them, maybe 200, at the same segment( over 8 cm) of the chromosome 12. most of the group are related in the matrix test.
    I have no jewish heritage on the paper. 2-3 generations known.
    Myheritage give me 0%, on other sites i get few to 27% (levant)DNALAND
    gedmatch, shows to various tests few % ashkenaz,levantine,red sea, west asia.


    Question:

    How can i find out who is the common ancestor? ( the trees dont give any new info)
    Can somebody give me an advise?

    Thanks much
    Last edited by The Riddler; 17 September 2019, 02:53 PM.
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