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  • Matching 200 people on the same segment

    Hi,

    i am new here, hope this is the right place to put my question hoping somebody can help me, give me an advice.

    I have just family finder at the moment, upload from myheritage. I am the only one in the family who is interested for genealogy.

    On FTDNA I match 1.555 people. Something about 80% are jewish, partly or full.
    I am matching a lot of them, maybe 200, at the same segment( over 8 cm) of the chromosome 12. most of the group are related in the matrix test.
    I have no jewish heritage on the paper. 2-3 generations known.
    Myheritage give me 0%, on other sites i get few to 27% (levant)DNALAND
    gedmatch, shows to various tests few % ashkenaz,levantine,red sea, west asia.


    Question:

    How can i find out who is the common ancestor? ( the trees dont give any new info)
    Can somebody give me an advise?

    Thanks much
    Last edited by The Riddler; 17th September 2019, 03:53 PM.

  • #2
    What is your own known recent ancestry? Your surname is found among Germans, Dutch, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, and Slovaks... is it one of those? Do you also have a second kind of ancestry, through your mother for example, like Polish?

    But a segment of relatively short length with so many matches would date before the 18th century, earlier than a common ancestor could be identified in vital records, because there are no vital records in most Ashkenazic communities before the first decades of the 19th century. Typical ancestral connections from early times that can be found by intact autosomal DNA segments shared between Jewish and non-Jewish matches include:
    Jewish ancestry in Western Ukrainians
    Jewish ancestry in Slovakian Rusyns (not widespread)
    Jewish ancestry in Southeastern Poles
    Polish ancestry in Jews
    Jewish ancestry in East Prussian Germans (not widespread)
    Jewish ancestry in Southern Italians and Sicilians
    Jewish ancestry in Spaniards
    Spanish ancestry in Jews (not widespread)

    Focus on your full Ashkenazic matches.

    Also, the ethnicity estimates from MyHeritageDNA and DNA.Land are not the most accurate around.
    Last edited by khazaria; 18th September 2019, 12:23 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      About Matching 200 people on the same segment

      Thank You very much for your post

      The surname of both mother and father families changed all over the time. almost every 2 generations, that make it harther to track back in time.

      i am from Satmar (today Romania) earlier Austro-Hungary. The town is bether known from the "Satmar Jews".
      My mothers family is from Zakarpatia- Ukraine, but they were moving all the time. so Ukraine-Galicia and Polish Galicia are homeland over the last 200 Years, but no papers.
      My fathers family is from the Satmar area for the last 150 years. Maybe some south european (sephardic?) influence.
      Both side of my family are intermixed ukrainian, magyars, romanian, lithuan, polish...

      The full jewish matches are back in time all somewhere in south Galicia, so it make sense.Thanks


      Wich company would help me bether with the dna test? ancestry, 23and me? FTDNA running Y and mtdna

      gedmatch

      K36
      Population
      Amerindian -
      Arabian 2.07 Pct
      Armenian -
      Basque 1.11 Pct
      Central_African -
      Central_Euro 5.62 Pct
      East_African -
      East_Asian -
      East_Balkan 6.92 Pct
      East_Central_Asian -
      East_Central_Euro 18.59 Pct
      East_Med 2.40 Pct
      Eastern_Euro 13.61 Pct
      Fennoscandian 2.17 Pct
      French 6.56 Pct
      Iberian 6.75 Pct
      Indo-Chinese -
      Italian 6.13 Pct
      Malayan -
      Near_Eastern 0.50 Pct
      North_African -
      North_Atlantic 8.40 Pct
      North_Caucasian 3.17 Pct
      North_Sea 7.29 Pct
      Northeast_African -
      Oceanian -
      Omotic -
      Pygmy -
      Siberian -
      South_Asian -
      South_Central_Asian 2.24 Pct
      South_Chinese -
      Volga-Ural -
      West_African 0.71 Pct
      West_Caucasian 0.94 Pct
      West_Med 4.82 Pct
      Jtest
      Population
      SOUTH_BALTIC 21.68 Pct
      EAST_EURO 14.06 Pct
      NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 17.14 Pct
      ATLANTIC 15.57 Pct
      WEST_MED 10.79 Pct
      ASHKENAZI 3.89 Pct
      EAST_MED 5.46 Pct
      WEST_ASIAN 7.13 Pct
      MIDDLE_EASTERN 2.64 Pct
      SOUTH_ASIAN 0.85 Pct
      EAST_AFRICAN -
      EAST_ASIAN -
      SIBERIAN 0.34 Pct
      WEST_AFRICAN 0.45 Pct
      Harappa world
      Population
      S-Indian 0.32 Pct
      Baloch 8.86 Pct
      Caucasian 15.74 Pct
      NE-Euro 45.35 Pct
      SE-Asian -
      Siberian -
      NE-Asian 0.99 Pct
      Papuan -
      American -
      Beringian 0.80 Pct
      Mediterranean 23.26 Pct
      SW-Asian 3.69 Pct
      San -
      E-African -
      Pygmy 0.98 Pct
      W-African -
      Admix Results (sorted):
      # Population Percent
      1 NE-Euro 45.35
      2 Mediterranean 23.26
      3 Caucasian 15.74
      4 Baloch 8.86
      5 SW-Asian 3.69

      Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
      16 components mode.

      --------------------------------

      Least-squares method.

      Using 1 population approximation:
      1 hungarian_behar @ 4.658032
      2 slovenian_xing @ 6.336905
      3 serbian_harappa @ 8.710015
      4 n-european_xing @ 13.921301
      5 romanian-a_behar @ 13.949868
      6 french_hgdp @ 15.027160
      7 ukranian_yunusbayev @ 15.164544
      8 utahn-white_1000genomes @ 15.422071
      9 utahn-white_hapmap @ 15.463328
      10 bulgarian_yunusbayev @ 16.452385
      11 british_1000genomes @ 17.553728
      12 orcadian_hgdp @ 19.623859
      13 mordovian_yunusbayev @ 21.290821
      14 belorussian_behar @ 21.699469
      15 russian_behar @ 22.365850
      16 italian_hgdp @ 22.782585
      17 russian_hgdp @ 25.074886
      18 spaniard_behar @ 25.486320
      19 chuvash_behar @ 26.294981
      20 spaniard_1000genomes @ 26.780470

      Using 2 populations approximation:
      1 50% n-european_xing +50% romanian-a_behar @ 4.032809


      Using 3 populations approximation:
      1 50% lithuanian_behar +25% spaniard_1000genomes +25% turk-kayseri_hodoglugil @ 2.355965


      Using 4 populations approximation:
      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
      1 ashkenazy-jew_behar + lithuanian_behar + orcadian_hgdp + serbian_harappa @ 1.884442
      2 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + utahn-white_hapmap + utahn-white_hapmap @ 2.026419
      3 armenian_yunusbayev + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.082663
      4 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + utahn-white_hapmap @ 2.086008
      5 armenian_behar + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.131552
      6 ashkenazy-jew_behar + british_1000genomes + lithuanian_behar + serbian_harappa @ 2.136158
      7 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + orcadian_hgdp @ 2.157838
      8 ashkenazi_harappa + lithuanian_behar + orcadian_hgdp + serbian_harappa @ 2.169369
      9 ashkenazi_harappa + british_1000genomes + lithuanian_behar + serbian_harappa @ 2.184186
      10 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + utahn-white_1000genomes + utahn-white_hapmap @ 2.184264
      11 azerbaijan-jew_behar + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.201758
      12 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + utahn-white_1000genomes @ 2.209681
      13 british_1000genomes + cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing @ 2.214330
      14 french_hgdp + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + turk-istanbul_hodoglugil @ 2.242928
      15 cypriot_behar + lithuanian_behar + n-european_xing + n-european_xing @ 2.265263
      16 armenian_yunusbayev + basque_hgdp + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar @ 2.270449
      17 belorussian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 + turk_behar @ 2.310374
      18 georgia-jew_behar + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + spain-basc_henn2012 @ 2.320998
      19 azerbaijan-jew_behar + basque_hgdp + lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar @ 2.322737
      20 orcadian_hgdp + romanian-a_behar + romanian-a_behar + ukranian_yunusbayev @ 2.331292

      Comment


      • #4
        The Riddler,

        I like the details on your ancestry and your matches that you posted here. They do fit within the scenarios we know of. In your case, you inherited your Jewish DNA segment(s) from your ancestors from Poland or Ukraine or both. Your Jewish ancestors belonged to the Galitzianer subgroup of Ashkenazim which spoke a different dialect of Yiddish than other Jews and which had some differences in their cuisine and way of life. The Gesher Galicia genealogy group focuses on this heritage.

        Yes, I did find that a small amount of Sephardic ancestry mixed in with the predominant Ashkenazic ancestry in some of the Christian families from close to your mother's region, but a little more to the north. Do you have any Spanish or Latin American DNA matches?

        If you are lucky, you - or a close relative - will be able to find your Jewish ancestor through Y-DNA or mtDNA testing, but those represent only a small portion of your total ancestry so you are more likely to carry totally Christian haplogroups. That is why you did the right thing by testing your autosomal DNA with Family Finder and GEDmatch, to see the maximum possible types of matches.

        AncestryDNA and especially 23andMe report Jewish DNA more reliably (less false positives and less false negatives) than MyHeritageDNA and DNA.Land do. If you test with 23andMe or AncestryDNA, you would find even more hundreds of Ashkenazic cousin matches, beyond the many you already have access to. Whether you really need to see all of them is your choice.

        In the Eurogenes K36 calculator, the Israelite portion of your Jewish ancestry would form part or all of your scores for following elements: 2.07% Arabian, 2.4% East Mediterranean, and 0.5% Near Eastern (but 0% Armenian). That would depend on whether you got any of those elements from your Magyar or Romanian ancestors. They are usually not found in Poles or Lithuanians.

        HarappaWorld's oracle suggests that you are closest overall to the Magyar people, and much more distant from Romanians and Ukrainians, and that a minor element is pulling part of your ancestry towards southern Europe, the southern Caucasus, and the Middle East including Jewish population samples.

        Comment


        • #5
          Khazaria,

          thank you very much. You did help me...and you know a lot about jewish life. Thats what i like.


          To Galicia: the ancestors of my „big jewish matches“ are on a line between Krakow and Lwiw.
          But i have jewish matches in Lithuania, Sweden, Hungary, Romania, Ukraina.

          Sephardic: yes, i have a few mizrachi and sephardic matches..then jewish/part jewish matches from France;Italy... Greece, Spain and latin America just a few.

          I will search the sites you give me, they look very interesting.

          I hope to match with the Y and mtdna. Haplogroup yes would be nice. I am not just carrier for some middle eastern disseases so maybe for the haplo to :-)

          At the moment i am working on some groups who are all matching on different segments of the chromosomes, think that could for each group a common ancestor back in time. Then ill will put the names and towns/regions togheter so i have a perspective where are crossing lines between my cousins. Can You sugest me some sites for genealogy? where i can search for names,trees and so on.Thanks. Do you know this book? „The Jews of Khazaria“ ? Is there something for the Jews of Galicia, eastern Europe or Ukraine? Thanks

          Shalom



          Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle



          Admix Results (sorted):
          # Population Percent
          1 North_Sea 24.71
          2 Baltic 19.91
          3 Eastern_Euro 15.37
          4 West_Med 12.12
          5 Atlantic 10.58
          6 East_Med 6.67
          7 West_Asian 6.29
          8 Red_Sea 2.15
          9 Sub-Saharan 1.12
          Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
          15 components mode.

          --------------------------------

          Least-squares method.

          Using 1 population approximation:
          1 Moldavian @ 7.676249
          2 Hungarian @ 7.948977
          3 Croatian @ 10.156765
          4 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 10.659346
          5 Ukrainian @ 11.351368
          6 Serbian @ 12.081923
          7 East_German @ 12.575735
          8 South_Polish @ 12.585180
          9 Austrian @ 14.027288
          10 Romanian @ 15.318795
          11 Polish @ 15.628337
          12 Finnish @ 16.638632
          13 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17.269789
          14 Southwest_Finnish @ 17.559242
          15 Southwest_Russian @ 17.582058
          16 Russian_Smolensk @ 17.833258
          17 East_Finnish @ 18.031769
          18 Bulgarian @ 18.573351
          19 West_German @ 19.035259
          20 Estonian @ 19.051514

          Using 2 populations approximation:
          1 50% Hungarian +50% Moldavian @ 6.732376


          Using 3 populations approximation:
          1 50% Moldavian +25% Ukrainian +25% West_German @ 6.121839


          Using 4 populations approximation:
          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
          1 Greek_Thessaly + North_Swedish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 6.057974
          2 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian + West_German @ 6.061414
          3 Greek_Thessaly + North_Swedish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.093939
          4 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_German @ 6.112656
          5 Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian + West_German @ 6.121839
          6 Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + North_Swedish + Ukrainian @ 6.156331
          7 Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_German @ 6.190137
          8 Greek_Thessaly + North_Swedish + Ukrainian_Lviv + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.193099
          9 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + Swedish @ 6.227312
          10 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_Norwegian @ 6.253374
          11 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Norwegian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.256873
          12 Moldavian + Moldavian + Moldavian + North_Swedish @ 6.268966
          13 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + West_Norwegian @ 6.276245
          14 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Swedish + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.287850
          15 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + Norwegian @ 6.324801
          16 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian + West_Norwegian @ 6.329358
          17 Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + North_Swedish + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.335660
          18 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Norwegian + Ukrainian @ 6.339238
          19 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Swedish + Ukrainian @ 6.344753
          20 Greek_Thessaly + Swedish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 6.349663






          Dodecad V3 4-Ancestors Oracle


          This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
          Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
          Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
          Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

          The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

          Admix Results (sorted):
          # Population Percent
          1 West_European 36.08
          2 East_European 23.21
          3 Mediterranean 23.15
          4 West_Asian 10.72
          5 Southwest_Asian 3.80
          6 South_Asian 1.42
          Finished reading population data. 227 populations found.
          12 components mode.

          --------------------------------

          Least-squares method.

          Using 1 population approximation:
          1 Slovenian_Xing @ 4.565683
          2 Hungarians_Behar @ 5.494026
          3 Balkans_Dodecad @ 14.929719
          4 Romanians_14_Behar @ 18.023922
          5 German_Dodecad @ 18.466152
          6 CEU_HapMap @ 22.151871
          7 N._European_Xing @ 22.253466
          8 Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 23.162369
          9 Mixed_Slav_Dodecad @ 23.413513
          10 Polish_Dodecad @ 23.587372
          11 Orcadian_HGDP @ 24.099457
          12 Orkney_1000 Genomes @ 24.385029
          13 Tuscan_Xing @ 25.451746
          14 Tuscan_Henn @ 25.717487
          15 TSI_HapMap @ 26.293604
          16 French_Dodecad @ 27.217243
          17 French_HGDP @ 27.586761
          18 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 28.058470
          19 FIN_1000Genomes @ 28.399555
          20 Russian_Dodecad @ 29.347792

          Using 2 populations approximation:
          1 50% C_Italian_Dodecad +50% Finnish_Dodecad @ 3.963722


          Using 3 populations approximation:
          1 50% German_Dodecad +25% Lithuanians_Behar +25% Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 2.463830


          Using 4 populations approximation:
          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++
          1 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.495337
          2 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.497762
          3 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.537480
          4 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.549761
          5 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad @ 1.562245
          6 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Orcadian_HGDP + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.568102
          7 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + Cornwall_1000 Genomes + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.576745
          8 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.600724
          9 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + N._European_Xing + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.601997
          10 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Isles_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.641280
          11 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + Lithuanian_Dodecad @ 1.655943
          12 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Belorussian_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.677041
          13 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Belorussian_Behar + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.704931
          14 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + French_HGDP + Lithuanian_Dodecad + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.715834
          15 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.745399
          16 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + British_Isles_Dodecad + Lithuanians_Behar @ 1.745887
          17 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.753236
          18 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Dutch_Dodecad + Hungarians_Behar @ 1.753316
          19 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Balkans_Dodecad + Cornwall_1000 Genomes + Lithuanian_Dodecad @ 1.756746
          20 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Orcadian_HGDP + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.761043


          Ancient Eurasia K6 4-Ancestors Oracle



          gedrosia K6 Oracle

          Admix Results (sorted):
          # Population Percent
          1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 41.64
          2 Natufian 38.31
          3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.21
          4 East_Asian 1.85
          Finished reading population data. 136 populations found.
          6 components mode.

          --------------------------------

          Least-squares method.

          Using 1 population approximation:
          1 Croatian @ 1.895112
          2 Hungarian @ 2.331711
          3 French @ 3.435584
          4 Czech @ 4.671801
          5 English @ 4.943013
          6 Romanian @ 5.101997
          7 Ukrainian @ 5.797978
          8 Scottish @ 5.991362
          9 Spanish @ 6.270710
          10 Norwegian @ 6.646529
          11 Bulgarian @ 7.035609
          12 Icelandic @ 8.518777
          13 Europe_LNBA @ 9.494035
          14 Basque @ 10.368228
          15 Estonian @ 11.605507
          16 Albanian @ 11.719180
          17 Lithuanian @ 12.451298
          18 Russian @ 12.775937
          19 Greek @ 13.302324
          20 Finnish @ 13.773493

          Using 2 populations approximation:
          1 50% Czech +50% Romanian @ 0.996004


          Using 3 populations approximation:
          1 50% Basque +25% Kumyk +25% Lithuanian @ 0.908107


          Using 4 populations approximation:
          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          1 Adygei + Basque + Basque + Lithuanian @ 0.858882
          2 Basque + Basque + Kumyk + Lithuanian @ 0.908107
          3 Albanian + Czech + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 0.922647
          4 Basque + Cypriot + Estonian + Lithuanian @ 0.939912
          5 Albanian + Czech + Czech + Hungarian @ 0.949947
          6 Czech + Czech + Romanian + Romanian @ 0.996004
          7 Hungarian + Icelandic + Romanian + Romanian @ 1.005925
          8 Albanian + English + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.030198
          9 Albanian + Czech + Hungarian + Ukrainian @ 1.030869
          10 Czech + English + Romanian + Romanian @ 1.038348
          11 Albanian + Hungarian + Lithuanian + Romanian @ 1.046611
          12 Albanian + Hungarian + Hungarian + Icelandic @ 1.048209
          13 Basque + Cypriot + Estonian + Estonian @ 1.052663
          14 Czech + Estonian + French + Italian_South @ 1.061948
          15 Albanian + French + French + Russian @ 1.069374
          16 Albanian + English + Hungarian + Ukrainian @ 1.075061
          17 Croatian + Czech + Hungarian + Romanian @ 1.076692
          18 Hungarian + Hungarian + Italian_South + Lithuanian @ 1.077172
          19 English + Finnish + French + Italian_South @ 1.077815
          20 Albanian + Albanian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian @ 1.083608
          Last edited by The Riddler; 22nd September 2019, 05:54 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Riddler View Post
            To Galicia: the ancestors of my „big jewish matches“ are on a line between Krakow and Lwiw.
            Dear The Riddler,

            Your statement that your "big Jewish matches" have ancestors from Galitzia fits the most common scenario for Jewish DNA into Christian Poles, Rusyns, and Ukrainians. Your longer segments indicate closer relatives. I assume your matches are caused by having shared Jewish ancestors instead of shared Slavic ancestors.

            Some Jewish members of the radical Frankist sect formally converted to Roman Catholicism in Lviv in the 1750s and 1760s and were given Polish first and last names. Most of those Jews were Ashkenazim, and some were mixed Ashkenazic+Sephardic.

            The Frankist ideology was already in conflict with traditional rabbinical Judaism (Mitnagim and Hasidim), but the most dramatic break between the groups came as soon as the Frankists converted to Catholicism. Jewish families unfortunately completely rejected their own children when they converted, and considered them as if they were dead.

            I did not find cases of Ashkenazim Catholics reverting back to Judaism. So, for them, it was a permanent change. But some of them in Warsaw married fellow Ashkenazic Catholics in the second half of the 18th century, even while many of those further south quickly married Slavic Catholics.

            The lack of subsequent contacts between Ashkenazic Jews and Ashkenazic Catholics led to the common situation where descendants of the latter had no knowledge of having any Jewish roots.

            Gesher Galicia publishes a quarterly newsletter called "The Galitzianer" that might be interesting to you.

            Because your Jewish ancestors lived before most Galitzian Jews obtained permanent surnames, it would probably not help you to read the books on Galitzianer Jewish surnames and family trees and vital records, except out of general interest. The first surnames were assigned to Galitzianer Jews in the years 1785-1787 and almost all of them were artificial German names, an example being Weisblum given to Rabbi Elimelech of Lizhensk shortly before his death in March 1787 in southeastern Poland. Only very few Galitzianer Jews had surnames before 1785 because only rabbinical families and Sephardic Jews liked to use surnames. Your own Ashkenazic ancestors instead had names like "Reuven son of Eli".

            It does seem that many of your Mizrahi Jewish, Sephardic Jewish, Italian, Spanish, Latin American matches could be real and in many/most cases connected to shared Jewish ancestors. You are exactly right that you can group and stack all your Jewish matches on particular segment areas of the chromosomes to reach a common genetic ancestor, especially for the segment with 200 matches, but be sure to ask some of your matches if they match the other matches in the same chromosomal area where you do, to be sure there is true triangulation in all directions. If you want me to look at the work you are doing in Family Finder and GEDmatch, you can contact me by private message, and I will keep the details confidential.

            There are some good academic studies out there. Perhaps you want to read the article "Jewish Conversions to Catholicism in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth of the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries" by Magdalena Teter in the journal Jewish History, Vol. 17, No. 3 (2003), pages 257-283. I have read some of Teter's writings and they are very useful. Also Pawel Maciejko's article "Frankism" in the YIVO Encyclopedia of Jews in Eastern Europe.

            Originally posted by The Riddler View Post
            Do you know this book? „The Jews of Khazaria“ ? Is there something for the Jews of Galicia, eastern Europe or Ukraine?
            Yes, I know that book very well... because I wrote it.
            In the Third Edition of The Jews of Khazaria, early Jews in the Galicia region of southeast Poland and southwest Ukraine are discussed mainly on pages 190, 192, and 193.

            Comment


            • #7
              Many of the Jews who were baptized into Christianity in the 1750s-1760s were from Podolia, adjacent to Galicia, according to Gershom Scholem's article "Frank, Jacob, and the Frankists" in Encyclopaedia Judaica, 2nd edition (2007).

              Ashkenazic Catholics sometimes adopted Polish surnames with particular characteristics that were common among converts.
              Last edited by khazaria; 23rd September 2019, 06:08 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dear Khazaria,

                i am very glad you are the Author of the book, i will read it next...very glad and honored to having you as support. I will take your advice/contact.

                I never thought of the frankist conection, very interesting and impressive your knowledge.Thank you.

                I took a first look to the Gesher Galicia site. I found, (for the first time) under „all galicia database“, the name of my grandmothers family ( Cherewko/Czerewka) in conection with the“Podhajce Josephine Survey (1787) database „ i just have to search if the 15 listed names were jewish families.Under Families data there is no „Cherewka“, so, just maybe.

                Your analysis are very clear, yes it seems to me that my matches came through the common jewish ancestors. All the groups are matching on the same segment of the one or other chromosome. The one group is with scandinavians, then it turns out they have jewish ancestors. I dindt expect this, i thought they are matches from who knows wich scandinavian great great greatfather/mother i not even have knowledge.

                I will read the articles, shore they are interesting.

                Thank You

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Riddler,

                  Below is a summary of what I can confirm based on the data you sent me plus extra data I found today:

                  1. You match a large cluster of Ashkenazic Jews on chromosome 8 from 94-101 million in Family Finder and GEDmatch. A pair of these matches in GEDmatch triangulates with each other in the same place.

                  2. You match a large cluster of Ashkenazic Jews on chromosome 12 from 20-45 million in Family Finder and GEDmatch. This is divided into two main sections, one from 20-31 million and the other from 31-45 million. 5 of your matches share both sections, but the majority share only one of the sections. The first section is much more prevalent, and triangulation among a dozen of its carriers was confirmed in that section. There is one person with Spanish first and last names in that first section's matches.

                  3. You match at least 12 Ashkenazic Jews on chromosome 16 from 47-54 million in Family Finder and GEDmatch.
                  I found 5 relevant matches in this area in GEDmatch and was able to triangulate them with each other.

                  So it's a success. More details are in the email I sent you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Khazaria,

                    thanks much again! you did a lot of work for me. Thanks! it is very nice that you bring your knowlegde in this forum.

                    3 groups of Ashkenazic Jews that i match for shore. Yes, it is a succes.
                    Now is a lot to do. I think i will search the names and regions of the Ashkenazim in each cluster trying to link the conections.
                    I hope to have succes and find the key of the clusters. It would be great.

                    I will inform the forum how it works, maybe somebody is/will be in the same situation or it is just interesting to follow this story.

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