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Are the majority of Americans related?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by georgian1950 View Post
    If you are interested in trying to identify your specific connection(s), please send me a private message and I'll work on it with you.
    I'd be interested to know the name of the escapee from this slave ring that you claim sailed all the way from the Atlantic coast of the U.S. to Sicily or southern Italy 7-10 generations ago and became one of my ancestors. That was your claim earlier in this thread when I pointed out that all my ancestors back to the 1750-1800 period are documented as born in Italy and that the small segments I share with you can't be related to the slave ring, as you claim.

    If you are able to give me the names of these escapees who are my ancestors from Sicily/southern Italy and where they ended up in Sicily or southern Italy, that would be great. Until then, I'll have to insist that the small segments you're relying on to make your case are not reliable at all.

    Again, as I posted earlier, I'm not casting doubt on your theory about the slave ring and the existence of its descendants in the U.S. today. There probably is something to it. However, your method of using such small segments to prove your case does not work.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
      I'd be interested to know the name of the escapee from this slave ring that you claim sailed all the way from the Atlantic coast of the U.S. to Sicily or southern Italy 7-10 generations ago and became one of my ancestors. That was your claim earlier in this thread when I pointed out that all my ancestors back to the 1750-1800 period are documented as born in Italy and that the small segments I share with you can't be related to the slave ring, as you claim.

      If you are able to give me the names of these escapees who are my ancestors from Sicily/southern Italy and where they ended up in Sicily or southern Italy, that would be great. Until then, I'll have to insist that the small segments you're relying on to make your case are not reliable at all.

      Again, as I posted earlier, I'm not casting doubt on your theory about the slave ring and the existence of its descendants in the U.S. today. There probably is something to it. However, your method of using such small segments to prove your case does not work.
      I think now that the boys were sold into seaman apprenticeships when they were old enough and if they survived eventually jumped ship or settled down all over the world. Sicily seems to be one of the popular jumping off spots, and I am finding more people from Sicily that have a connection (stronger than yours) to North Carolina. I've added our matching segments to my Genome Mate database, and you are triangulating well with kits that have a stronger connection. I'm making great progress in proving the theory and I'm not worried about a few naysayers.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by georgian1950 View Post
        I think now that the boys were sold into seaman apprenticeships when they were old enough and if they survived eventually jumped ship or settled down all over the world. Sicily seems to be one of the popular jumping off spots, and I am finding more people from Sicily that have a connection (stronger than yours) to North Carolina. I've added our matching segments to my Genome Mate database, and you are triangulating well with kits that have a stronger connection. I'm making great progress in proving the theory and I'm not worried about a few naysayers.
        Well, it's quite easy to make a statement claiming a connection that is very, very speculative on its face, which your explanation is. Until you can provide me with some documentary evidence that shows that someone who lived in Italy in the 1700s came from North Carolina, your explanation is just hand-waving to deny the unreliability of your method.

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        • #49
          I am sorry MMaddi, this time you are wrong Everybody who migrated to America from Italy (and elsewhere in Europe) during a certain timeframe was already genetically related to those living in America due to backmigration...

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          • #50
            Originally posted by georgian1950 View Post
            It's not a general statement about population genetics. I should have been more precise, but the breeding is being done by a handful of white males, and I am very close to identifying who the guilty ones were.
            I would love to know who the guilty ones are.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Tenn4ever View Post
              I would love to know who the guilty ones are.
              Fair enough.

              DNA is pointing toward a Thomas Edward Green b. 1700 and one or more Wilson males from my third great grandmother's maternal side, probably an uncle. The operation seems to have been multi-generational, because many descendants carry the matching segments for both the Green connection and the Wilson connection.

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              • #52
                Maybe I'm missing something but how could you possibly tell that the DNA proves them to be descendants of these American men. Assuming the matches you are seeing are indeed valid, could it not be their ancestors came from big families and the reason you are seeing matches with others is because you are finding descendants of these men's distant ancestors?

                All my family lines come from the 6 counties of Northern Ireland as far back as I can trace (into the 1700s) and yet I also find many segments in common with you and your mother's kits. Thats why I would presume the matches probabaly date back to the 1500s/1600s and didn't take place in the US.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Lucky View Post
                  Maybe I'm missing something but how could you possibly tell that the DNA proves them to be descendants of these American men. Assuming the matches you are seeing are indeed valid, could it not be their ancestors came from big families and the reason you are seeing matches with others is because you are finding descendants of these men's distant ancestors?

                  All my family lines come from the 6 counties of Northern Ireland as far back as I can trace (into the 1700s) and yet I also find many segments in common with you and your mother's kits. Thats why I would presume the matches probabaly date back to the 1500s/1600s and didn't take place in the US.
                  You are right that autosomal DNA does not tell sex, but the situation does, like putting pieces into a puzzle. I'll try to give more details later behind how I have gotten where I am at.

                  Regarding your segments in common with my mother and me, many people have made up their ancestry. DNA trumps oral family histories from my experience. I'd like to look at our comparisons, but if you do not want to post your kit, send me a PM. I'll keep any discussions private and you can choose if you want to post any of it.

                  I do need to point out that I might have been premature in blaming Thomas Edward Green. A son may have been the one that is guilty. I'm still working on that.

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                  • #54
                    I tried to read this entire thread but it's just toooo much.

                    Did I understand you to say that your premise is that these 'prolific' breeders are from Colonial America in the Virginia and North Carolina areas?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Tenn4ever View Post
                      I tried to read this entire thread but it's just toooo much.

                      Did I understand you to say that your premise is that these 'prolific' breeders are from Colonial America in the Virginia and North Carolina areas?
                      It's hard to describe an area in North Carolina in terms of a county during the Eighteen Century because the counties were constantly changing, but let's call the location Granville/Warren Counties, North Carolina.

                      Most Melungeons and Lumbee Native Americans, among others, seem to have a DNA connection to this situation. Furthermore, the prolific breeders seem to be just a handful.

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                      • #56
                        georgian1950 --

                        The trouble with using small segments is that a very high percentage do not hold up when you can phase the data (determine which alleles came from the paternal and which from the maternal chromosome). This blog post illustrates what happened when I uploaded a phased file for my son to Family Finder:

                        http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com...a-phase-makes/

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ann Turner View Post
                          georgian1950 --

                          The trouble with using small segments is that a very high percentage do not hold up when you can phase the data (determine which alleles came from the paternal and which from the maternal chromosome). This blog post illustrates what happened when I uploaded a phased file for my son to Family Finder:

                          http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com...a-phase-makes/
                          Hi Ann, can you share the kit numbers with me that you used in you analysis? If you want to keep it private, we can.

                          Thanks.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by georgian1950 View Post
                            Hi Ann, can you share the kit numbers with me that you used in you analysis? If you want to keep it private, we can.

                            Thanks.
                            The FTDNA kit numbers wouldn't do you any good if you're not a match to me. Perhaps someone has uploaded some phased kits to GEDMatch you could experiment with.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Ann Turner View Post
                              The FTDNA kit numbers wouldn't do you any good if you're not a match to me. Perhaps someone has uploaded some phased kits to GEDMatch you could experiment with.
                              I agree and would think to truly explore and prove this hypothesis (relatedness in respects to these small segments) one would have to use phased kits in the one to one. That is phased kit to phased kit. otherwise it is picking a value for each position from one of 4 values. Kit 1 maternal value or paternal value against kit 2's maternal value or paternal value.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                                I agree and would think to truly explore and prove this hypothesis (relatedness in respects to these small segments) one would have to use phased kits in the one to one. That is phased kit to phased kit. otherwise it is picking a value for each position from one of 4 values. Kit 1 maternal value or paternal value against kit 2's maternal value or paternal value.
                                To make connections a few hundred years bad, I don't care if a matching segment is recreated so to speak by several relatives that have a common ancestor. Phasing might be good for making close relations more certain, but you are throwing away data that you need for finding distant relationships.
                                Last edited by georgian1950; 23 April 2015, 05:12 PM. Reason: typo

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