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Clovis-Anzick-1 Amerindian ancient DNA have matches with living people.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Armando View Post
    It would be great to get more ancient DNA into Gedmatch. Do you have access to more?
    Yes, there are some ancient DNA in GEDMatch.

    F999902 - Altai Neanderthal
    F999903 - Denisova
    F999906 - Palaeo-Eskimo 2000 BC
    F999909 - Mezmaiskaya Neanderthal
    F999912 - Clovis Anzick-1

    If you know any scientific papers/publication who had provided raw data, let me know and I will try to upload into GEDMatch.

    Originally posted by Armando View Post
    It does not matter if 999912 has an F, M or A in front of the account if he does not show as a match to anyone's personal list of matches, which it looks like he doesn't.
    Yes, that's because, the kit is marked as research. A research kit will never appear on anyone's personal list.

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    • #17
      That screenshot from GEDmatch will be my favourite for showing FF limitations

      There are comments on Felix's blog that I found deeply disturbing. Some clearly have no idea that the matches are IBS and not IBD...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by dna View Post
        That screenshot from GEDmatch will be my favourite for showing FF limitations

        There are comments on Felix's blog that I found deeply disturbing. Some clearly have no idea that the matches are IBS and not IBD...
        Looking at the first match.



        You can't have IBS at 9 cM with 1064 SNPs and 14.8 cM with 867 SNPs. Adding more affinity to this match is his Y-DNA matching exactly the ancient DNA sample's Y-DNA.
        Attached Files

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        • #19
          Originally posted by felix View Post
          Adding more affinity to this match is his Y-DNA matching exactly the ancient DNA sample's Y-DNA.
          Correction/a small typo:
          Adding more affinity to this match is his Y-Haplogroup matching exactly the ancient DNA sample's Y-Haplogroup.

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          • #20
            @felix

            We can be arguing about potato or tomato pronunciation forever, but we are talking about the same...

            Testing parents/cousins/etc. of the matches might bring us closer to better understanding of how bottlenecks and endogamous societies impact genetic makeup.

            Until then it is interesting only because it goes against expectations.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by felix View Post
              The genome sequence of a male infant (Anzick-1) recovered from the Anzick burial site in western Montana is converted into familiar formats which I made available here.

              I also uploaded it to GEDMatch# F999912 (with FTDNA SNPs) and you might be surprised to hear this 11,000 year old infant has some 3rd cousins living today . Interestingly, most of the Y-haplogroup for the first 15 matches to kit F999912 is Q1a3a* and the haplogroup of the infact child is also Q-L54 (which is Q1a3a).

              GEDMatch Screenshot:


              Please leave your comments and possible questions for this mystery of 11,000 year old ancient DNA matching living people today either here or at my blog ...

              Link: http://www.fc.id.au/2014/09/clovis-a...ng-people.html
              How can I find out how much ANE I have in my dna?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by felix View Post
                Yes, there are some ancient DNA in GEDMatch.

                F999902 - Altai Neanderthal
                F999903 - Denisova
                F999906 - Palaeo-Eskimo 2000 BC
                F999909 - Mezmaiskaya Neanderthal
                F999912 - Clovis Anzick-1
                Nice. Thank you.


                Originally posted by felix View Post
                If you know any scientific papers/publication who had provided raw data, let me know and I will try to upload into GEDMatch.
                I guess for starters Mal’ta boy MA-1 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture12736.html and Mesolithic La Braña http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture12960.html

                I know those are available I just don't know where the files can be downloaded from.

                Originally posted by felix View Post
                Yes, that's because, the kit is marked as research. A research kit will never appear on anyone's personal list.
                Makes sense.
                Last edited by Armando; 22nd September 2014, 10:10 AM.

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                • #23
                  Robert Estes has blogged about the Felix's ancient DNA uploads to Gedmatch.

                  http://dna-explained.com/2014/09/22/...a-at-gedmatch/

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                    How can I find out how much ANE I have in my dna?
                    Your FF results will need to be uploaded to gedmatch.com and you will need to go through the admixture tools in the Eurogenes project

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                    • #25
                      You will need to obtain results from the EUtest V2 K15 in the Eurogenes project

                      You can then input your percentage results into the following file: https://app.box.com/s/nr09lj4xbgivblr4tpm5

                      In addition, there is a new admixture calculator: Eurogenes_ANE K7

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dna View Post
                        That screenshot from GEDmatch will be my favourite for showing FF limitations

                        There are comments on Felix's blog that I found deeply disturbing. Some clearly have no idea that the matches are IBS and not IBD...
                        Originally posted by felix View Post
                        Looking at the first match.



                        You can't have IBS at 9 cM with 1064 SNPs and 14.8 cM with 867 SNPs. Adding more affinity to this match is his Y-DNA matching exactly the ancient DNA sample's Y-DNA.
                        Depending on who you talk to IBD (Identical by decent) means different things. To me IBD is a unbroken piece of DNA that is passed down from ancestor, not one that is compounded by making it from both your maternal and paternal chromosome.

                        I too would call these segments IBS (Identical by State).
                        If one would compare ones phased results(only their maternal chromosome or their paternal chromosome values)against the Clovis-Anzick-1 Amerindian DNA these segments sizes more then likely would not be as large. Segments being created by using bits that are on your separate maternal/paternal chromosome pair.
                        Which in my view and use of IBD and IBS would mean segments are IBS.

                        But I quess it depends on how one uses the term IBD....

                        All in All I do find this file interesting in what it represents as a whole. Thanks for posting it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Well said

                          dna - how beautifully said
                          "Testing parents/cousins/etc. of the matches might bring us closer to better understanding of how bottlenecks and endogamous societies impact genetic makeup.

                          Until then it is interesting only because it goes against expectations."

                          We all have to remember we are on the frontier, the very beginning of understanding how dna is inherited in the real world in contrast to lab experiments and fancy algorithms.

                          I don't believe the miracle of life is as easy to tame as the scientists would have us believe. They have lots of individual data, but genealogists are now amassing large databases of generational data. And we are finding things that go against the expectations.

                          We need to have patience. It will take awhile before we figure it all out. Keep an open mind and open communication and sooner or later it will start making sense. Then perhaps the scientists will have to adjust their algorithms to account for our findings.

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                          • #28
                            felix,
                            Thanks for getting these ancient genomes on Gedmatch. I agree with prairielad that it is an interesting file. And it is cool that people with significant Native ancestry are matching to large chunks of his DNA. Obviously they are not going to truly be related to Anzick in an estimated 4.2 generations like the one example that you showed of comparing him to kit# M193252.

                            I think for the rest of us who have to turn the cm and SNPs down pretty low to get matching I wouldn't trust it. I match for 207 cm total with Anzick with everything set lower. But I also start to match my husband at these levels.

                            Otherwise an engaging exercise for all of us who are DNA addicted! Thanks! Any chance you will get the Stuttgart sample on Gedmatch?

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                            • #29
                              I just blogged my view on the ancient Clovis-Anzick-1 Amerindian genome and it's matches.

                              Link: Ancient Amerindian DNA: How valid are the matches?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by felix View Post
                                I just blogged my view on the ancient Clovis-Anzick-1 Amerindian genome and it's matches.

                                Link: Ancient Amerindian DNA: How valid are the matches?
                                In my opinion, anything that only involves descendants of a match just juggles the numbers.

                                It could be very interesting and useful to create a model that calculates the maximum number of people beyond Clovis-Anzick-1 sister and brother that were founders of Mario Diaz (F349738) population that would allow so much of DNA to be the same after 440 generations... I am expecting that it would be a simple model with a very small number of founders.

                                Felix, if you look at their Y-DNA, what is the predicted number of generations between F999912 and F349738 ?
                                Last edited by dna; 23rd September 2014, 12:55 PM.

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