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Clovis-Anzick-1 Amerindian ancient DNA have matches with living people.

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  • Clovis-Anzick-1 Amerindian ancient DNA have matches with living people.

    The genome sequence of a male infant (Anzick-1) recovered from the Anzick burial site in western Montana is converted into familiar formats which I made available here.

    I also uploaded it to GEDMatch# F999912 (with FTDNA SNPs) and you might be surprised to hear this 11,000 year old infant has some 3rd cousins living today . Interestingly, most of the Y-haplogroup for the first 15 matches to kit F999912 is Q1a3a* and the haplogroup of the infact child is also Q-L54 (which is Q1a3a).

    GEDMatch Screenshot:


    Please leave your comments and possible questions for this mystery of 11,000 year old ancient DNA matching living people today either here or at my blog ...

    Link: http://www.fc.id.au/2014/09/clovis-a...ng-people.html

  • #2
    My immediate reaction is that you have just reduced my level of confidence about anything I read on gedmatch. I am also wondering whether both the gedmatch site owners and FTDNA are comfortable about the idea of having manipulated data presented as an FTDNA match on gedmatch.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LynCra View Post
      My immediate reaction is that you have just reduced my level of confidence about anything I read on gedmatch. I am also wondering whether both the gedmatch site owners and FTDNA are comfortable about the idea of having manipulated data presented as an FTDNA match on gedmatch.
      The kits are marked as 'research'. Also, the uploaded file is not "manipulated" but processed from data available from http://www.cbs.dtu.dk/suppl/clovis/d...k-1/genotypes/
      Last edited by felix; 21st September 2014, 10:09 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by LynCra View Post
        My immediate reaction is that you have just reduced my level of confidence about anything I read on gedmatch. I am also wondering whether both the gedmatch site owners and FTDNA are comfortable about the idea of having manipulated data presented as an FTDNA match on gedmatch.

        There is no reason it should reduce your confidence about anything you read on Gedmatch.

        Why would Gedmatch and FTDNA be uncomfortable with that? If FTDNA is uncomfortable with it then they should be uncomfortable with Gedmatch as a whole. The site owners of Gedmatch should be happy about their site getting more exposure.

        As Felix said data was not manipulated.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by felix View Post
          The genome sequence of a male infant (Anzick-1) recovered from the Anzick burial site in western Montana is converted into familiar formats which I made available here.

          I also uploaded it to GEDMatch# F999912 (with FTDNA SNPs) and you might be surprised to hear this 11,000 year old infant has some 3rd cousins living today . Interestingly, most of the Y-haplogroup for the first 15 matches to kit F999912 is Q1a3a* and the haplogroup of the infact child is also Q-L54 (which is Q1a3a).

          Please leave your comments and possible questions for this mystery of 11,000 year old ancient DNA matching living people today either here or at my blog ...

          Link: http://www.fc.id.au/2014/09/clovis-a...ng-people.html
          Thank you Felix. There are about 8 people that I know that are in the list of matches. I'm sure it is all IBS but very interesting none the less.

          It would be great to get more ancient DNA into Gedmatch. Do you have access to more?

          Comment


          • #6
            Given the naming convention of having FTDNA matches starting with an F then I would consider it to be a false representation as an FTDNA user.

            If this had appeared in my matches showing Gen 3.5 and subsequently been explained away as a "research" sample over 11000 years old I would have given up believing any generational calculation on gedmatch.

            If this kind of research data is going to be accepted in the gedmatch database then my recommendation would be that it is given a nomenclature which makes it easily recognisable so that unsuspecting users cannot be fooled into thinking they have a genuine new match.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have wondered if it is possible to get DNA from people deceased several centuries uploaded to the Family Finder database to match against. Of course, assuming it was derived from exhumations, we could never be 100% certain of the identity of the DNA, but if it generated Family Finder matches among several descendants, we could be reasonably certain about the identity. This might enable Family Finder to reach back several generations further.

              I assume that one would have to find a lab that does this sort of work, that produces Illumina Optima quality results that would make raw data available for download.

              Timothy Peterman

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LynCra View Post
                Given the naming convention of having FTDNA matches starting with an F then I would consider it to be a false representation as an FTDNA user.

                If this had appeared in my matches showing Gen 3.5 and subsequently been explained away as a "research" sample over 11000 years old I would have given up believing any generational calculation on gedmatch.

                If this kind of research data is going to be accepted in the gedmatch database then my recommendation would be that it is given a nomenclature which makes it easily recognisable so that unsuspecting users cannot be fooled into thinking they have a genuine new match.
                You are blowing all of this out of proportion especially with the term false representation. F999912 has the name Clovis Anzick-1 associated with it. That tells us who the DNA belongs to.

                If you look at the matches of the first two matches to F999912 you'll see that F999912 does not show up in their lists. I doubt that F999912 Clovis Anzick-1 shows up as a match to anyone's personal list. Any other ancient DNA would show the same.

                None of the matches at Gedmatch are guaranteed to be genuine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Armando View Post
                  You are blowing all of this out of proportion especially with the term false representation.
                  Am I? Perhaps you are right. I will leave it to others to assess whether I am overreacting

                  I have no issues with attempts to match against ancient DNA and am in fact positive to that initiative. What concerns me here is that it appears to be in the category of an FTDNA user and that the generation gap of about 3 may be highly misleading.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by felix View Post
                    The genome sequence of a male infant (Anzick-1) recovered from the Anzick burial site in western Montana is converted into familiar formats which I made available here.



                    Please leave your comments and possible questions for this mystery of 11,000 year old ancient DNA matching living people today either here or at my blog ...

                    Link: http://www.fc.id.au/2014/09/clovis-a...ng-people.html
                    I am just "Spit balling" here but since the Native Americans were a very isolated population wouldn't it tend to increase their relationships with each other similar to the Ashkenazi?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LynCra View Post
                      What concerns me here is that it appears to be in the category of an FTDNA user and that the generation gap of about 3 may be highly misleading.
                      You are still being over dramatic. It does not matter if 999912 has an F, M or A in front of the account if he does not show as a match to anyone's personal list of matches, which it looks like he doesn't.

                      Since none of your Gedmatch matches are guaranteed to be genuine you are supposed to investigate. If a match turns out not to be real then you are supposed to just consider it IBS and move on. If the match is IBS it makes no difference if there is an F, M, or A in front of the account.

                      All IBS matching are misleading. It does not matter if there is an F, M, or A in front of the account. IBS happens with accounts from all 3 companies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tlgarrison View Post
                        I am just "Spit balling" here but since the Native Americans were a very isolated population wouldn't it tend to increase their relationships with each other similar to the Ashkenazi?
                        The bottleneck for Native Americans is 10,000 to 15,000 years before present. The Ashkenazi is much, much, more recent.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Felix,
                          Thank you for posting this mystery. Finally something truly worthy of a discussion on Family Finder Advanced Topic unlike "New Matches are coming in.."

                          Armando,
                          I have not studied any Ashkenazi DNA lines but have only read about them. I know the Ashkenazi have their matches Total cM increased but was wondering if their largest segment was on the small side 10 - 14 cM like the ones here?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The following is just an observation and not a response to anyone.

                            F999912 is 87% Amerindian and 8% Siberian in Eurogenes K36. His closest match has the same amounts.

                            Eurogenes K9, K10, K13 and K36 normally provide the same amounts within 2% for people over 14% actual Amerindian ancestry when compared with each other. Meaning that it doesn't matter which of those Eurogenes calculators is used the results will be similar as far as Amerindian and Siberian.

                            In the ADMIXTURE graph that was released with the official publication of Anzick-1 he is closest to Mexicans at K9 through K11.

                            http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...e13025-sf3.jpg

                            One reason I point this out is because MyOrigins also separates a small percentage of Native American ancestry as Siberian in a lot of cases.
                            Last edited by Armando; 21st September 2014, 02:19 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Many Americans are hunting for their Native American princess in their genomes but only have very tiny haploblocks of potential NA ancestry. They will be happy to hear there is a NA model that has very little admixture to compare themselves against at GEDmatch. I wish I knew how much of mine is just noise. 1-2 million base pairs is hardly enough to get excited about but you never know when one of these segments will turn up IBD.

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