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Interesting but also Strange Results

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  • Interesting but also Strange Results

    I received autosomal results from 23andme AND Family Tree DNA. Here they are:

    23andme results:

    5.1% French & German
    2.3% Scandinavian
    57.7% Nonspecific North European
    0.9% Eastern European
    0.8% Ashkenazi
    0.1% Nonspecific South European
    33.2% Nonspecific European

    Family Tree DNA results:

    91.17% Western European
    (Orcadian)
    +/- 2.93%

    8.83% Middle Eastern
    (Palestinian, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Jewish, Mozabite)
    +/- 2.93%

    Comments:

    Since I am Haplogroup X, the Orcadian results are especially interesting as the Orkney Islands are a known hot spot for Haplogroup X. Could it be possible that my ancestors wore a kilt? Perhaps they were Picts or perhaps they spoke Norn?

  • #2
    I believe Orcadian is a proxy population, used to represent Western European in general.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by J Honeychuck View Post
      I believe Orcadian is a proxy population, used to represent Western European in general.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcadians

      Orcadians are the native population of the Orkney islands. Historically, they are descended from the Picts, Norse and Scots.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, but Population Finder uses a very limited number of populations as references. Orcadian is one of them. It stands in for most of northwest Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, and France, as well as the British Isles.

        Population Finder is very crude and lags far behind both the commercial competition and the free utilities on Gedmatch.

        I suspect (but am not sure) you'd show a lot more Scandinavian and/or British Isles if you had a significant Orkney component. Ancestry Composition in Speculative Mode might give you some more insights.

        Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcadians

        Orcadians are the native population of the Orkney islands. Historically, they are descended from the Picts, Norse and Scots.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NYMark View Post
          Yes, but Population Finder uses a very limited number of populations as references. Orcadian is one of them. It stands in for most of northwest Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, and France, as well as the British Isles.

          Population Finder is very crude and lags far behind both the commercial competition and the free utilities on Gedmatch.

          I suspect (but am not sure) you'd show a lot more Scandinavian and/or British Isles if you had a significant Orkney component. Ancestry Composition in Speculative Mode might give you some more insights.
          I understand what you write here. I think it would make more sense if FTDNA wouldn't lump everyone into such a specific group.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
            I understand what you write here. I think it would make more sense if FTDNA wouldn't lump everyone into such a specific group.
            Population Finder is based on the population used, currently many western Europe countries are not within FTDNA dataset. Therefore PF calculates your DNA to best fit the populations listed, which for many western Europeans, the best fit is Orcadian and small percentage of Middle East.

            See link for populations currently used by PF.
            http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/ans...?faqid=22#1039

            Comment


            • #7
              You will find the populations they use here

              http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/ans...spx?id=22#1039


              Europe
              Northeast European
              Finnish
              Russian
              Southeast European
              Romanian
              Southern European
              Italian
              Sardinian
              Tuscan
              Western European
              Basque
              French
              Orcadian (Orkney Islands)
              Spanish

              Comment


              • #8
                My mistake about French. They do have a French reference population in PF. Don't know how robust it is, and France is a very heterogeneous country, stretching as it does from the Mediterranean to the North Sea. 23andMe lumps French and German together, and Ancestry pretty much does too under "Europe West."

                Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                Population Finder is based on the population used, currently many western Europe countries are not within FTDNA dataset. Therefore PF calculates your DNA to best fit the populations listed, which for many western Europeans, the best fit is Orcadian and small percentage of Middle East.

                See link for populations currently used by PF.
                http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/ans...?faqid=22#1039

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
                  You will find the populations they use here

                  http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/ans...spx?id=22#1039


                  Europe
                  Northeast European
                  Finnish
                  Russian
                  Southeast European
                  Romanian
                  Southern European
                  Italian
                  Sardinian
                  Tuscan
                  Western European
                  Basque
                  French
                  Orcadian (Orkney Islands)
                  Spanish
                  So they do list Orcadian as Orkney Islands.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
                    So they do list Orcadian as Orkney Islands.
                    Yes, Orcadian could mean the Orkneys. But most people high on that component are not from the Orkneys, e.g. British, main island Scotch, Welsh, Irish and Norwegian.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=josh w.;372673]Yes, Orcadian could mean the Orkneys. But most people high on that component are not from the Orkneys, e.g. British, main island Scotch, Welsh, Irish and Norwegian.[/QUOTE

                      FTDNA should try to be a bit more specific.

                      What's interesting about the Orkney Islands is that up until about the 1700's or so, a now extinct "northern germanic" was spoken there. So I guess, in a very technical sense, FTDNA might be right if they consider "Orcadians" as "western Europeans" due the usage of "germanic" languages. But then again, studies have shown that the spread of languages does not always correlate with the spread of DNA.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NYMark View Post
                        Yes, but Population Finder uses a very limited number of populations as references. Orcadian is one of them. It stands in for most of northwest Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, and France, as well as the British Isles.

                        Population Finder is very crude and lags far behind both the commercial competition and the free utilities on Gedmatch.

                        I suspect (but am not sure) you'd show a lot more Scandinavian and/or British Isles if you had a significant Orkney component. Ancestry Composition in Speculative Mode might give you some more insights.
                        This is probably more of a question aimed at FTDNA: Why use "Orcadian" as a population reference to cover almost all of Western Europe when the Orkney Islands historically had very small populations of people. I would think if you use "Orcadian" to describe a population, that you would be specifically pointing at someone from the Orkney Islands, a place where very few people have lived. It Seems STUPID to me. If you want to represent the vast majority of Europeans, perhaps using GERMANY is a more accurate population reference and yet, for unknown reasons, GERMANY is missing from the list. Why?????
                        Last edited by girlperson1; 8 November 2013, 04:12 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
                          This is probably more of a question aimed at FTDNA: Why use "Orcadian" as a population reference to cover almost all of Western Europe
                          Because it was publicly available, and no German (or generic Isles) reference population was, when Population Finder was assembled.

                          You cannot compare people's DNA to that of populations that are not adequately screened and sampled and published.

                          Of course, several private projects do have such sample sets now.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Javelin View Post
                            Because it was publicly available, and no German (or generic Isles) reference population was, when Population Finder was assembled.

                            You cannot compare people's DNA to that of populations that are not adequately screened and sampled and published.

                            Of course, several private projects do have such sample sets now.
                            So basically, this whole notion of autosomal DNA is very much in its infancy stages. So like 23andme, I shouldn't take Population Finder too seriously, at least for now. (Mutters to herself, "hopefully, it was money well-spent").

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NYMark View Post
                              Snip...

                              Population Finder is very crude and lags far behind both the commercial competition and the free utilities on Gedmatch.
                              Yes, I have come to realize this.

                              I've tried to create a registration for Gedmatch but it doesn't seem to connect. Anyone know why?

                              Comment

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