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R-FT367291 recent TMRCA yet 3 different countries, am I reading this right

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  • R-FT367291 recent TMRCA yet 3 different countries, am I reading this right

    Hello,

    I just got my big Y results. I am R-Z253>R-S3530>R-CTS5491>R-FT367291. As can be seen in the R Z253 group chart, there are 4 of us in this haplogroup with a recent TMRCA 672 BCE [104-1097 CE]. 1 from Italy/cantabria, 1 from spain\basque country, 1 from costa rica but with a basque family name and then myself with an ancestor from France\Normandy.

    Am I reading this right that it means that the 4 of us share a paternal ancestor that lived in the TMRCA range ?

    If that's the case I am bit clueless to explain such a "late" spread from my history knowledge. When I look at its parent clade R-S3530, earliest knwon ancestor place seems tied to the basque country when known.

    Maybe the Aragonese rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdo...sh_direct_rule) could explain the Italian match as this spanned both places. But I am at a loss for a norman\\basque connection. Any ideas anyone ? Or is an NPE on my side the only explanation

  • #2
    As of just now, FTDNA Discover estimates that the first man to carry R1b-FT367291 was born about 650 AD. That's not recent, unless one regards the early Middle Ages as recent. You and those other guys share Mr. FT367291 as Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA).

    I wouldn't put too much stock into some kind of Basque connection. R1b-Z253 is not especially Basque. The original Basque Y-DNA I2 population was largely replaced by R1b groups once Beaker appeared in Iberia about 2500 BC, but most of that was R1b-DF27.

    Discover says of R1b-FT367291 that "He is the ancestor of at least 4 descendant lineages known as R-FTB50714 and 3 yet unnamed lineages." Unless you are R1b-FTB50714, I'm guessing you belong to one of those unnamed lineages.

    Further Big Y-700 testing should get you more matches and reveal SNPs downstream of FT367291, with a much more recent TMRCA. Recruiting some of your Y-DNA relatives/cousins for testing would help. So would recruiting some of your close STR matches who have not yet done the Big Y-700.

    As for history, ~650 AD was during the period of Visigoth rule in Iberia: https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/06/eusi.html

    They were also in Gaul and Italy. I'm not saying your Y-DNA ancestor was a Visigoth, but you never know.
    Last edited by Stevo; 20 January 2023, 12:40 PM.

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    • #3
      Thanks Stevo. Indeed I consider 650 AD recent I guess I should have meant that's within the written history era. Typically we know about bell beaker movements through archeological and genetic finds. On the other hand we know about germanic "invasions" of the roman empire or the angles settling in Brittany through written records. As unreliable and missing as they can be.

      Indeed Z253 does not seem basque, If I get it right it appeared in the british isles. Its subclade R-S3530 seems very tied to the basque country.

      Good advice, I need to find close matches and remote cousins to test !

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