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How to get terminal snp?

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  • How to get terminal snp?

    Alright so i went for Y DNA, i got a predicted haplogroup of L-M20 and these are the results of Y-111. Does this mean that they were unable to find my terminal snp with the Y-111?

  • #2
    That's just a prediction. You'll need to perform some kind of SNP test in order to verify L-M20 with 100% certainty.

    It sounds as if that they weren't confident enough based on the 111 STR marker test to make any more refined prediction. That doesn't mean that you are not positive for some important downstream SNP, though. It just means that they weren't confident enough to make a prediction.

    You're just going to have to take some kind of SNP test to find out more for sure, either the full bore whole Y chromo sequencing, or some kind of smaller, targeted test package or test for individual SNPs. There's no substitute for this. No guts, no glory. Risk--the risk that your terminal SNP has not been discovered yet--is unavoidable. You're just never going to know for sure until you perform some kind of SNP testing.


    • #3
      Will big Y-700 help in determining the SNP?


      • #4
        That is the most powerful test, and your best chance of discovering your terminal SNP. So yes, it will help.

        I just want to add the caveat, though, that SNP discovery is an ongoing process. Although this is your best chance, it is far from a guarantee. For many guys it pays off right away, but for others it takes a long time, and for some it never pays off. It is also very $$ expensive $$.

        Just know this before you purchase. Make an informed decision.


        • #5
          I have already tested for that. So far, only the Y-111 results are out and Y-700 (BIg Y) will be out next month. I was just a little disappointed that I got L-m20 which basically does not tell me anything about my ancestors origin since it spreads fro southern india to west asia


          • #6
            Well, you're not alone. My family's test tells us little more than that we had an ancestor in northeastern Spain about 4,000 years ago. Our *currently identified* terminal SNP seems to have been widely spread throughout Europe since that time, so not very informative. And we had to wait 10 years for even this paltry information to be discovered.

            I guess it boils down to luck.

            Sounds like you already paid for the test, so at this point it's a sunk cost for you. I wish you good luck, but I don't suppose there's much point in thinking a lot about it if nothing comes up. Big Y is about all anyone can do, so it's out of your hands at this point.


            • #7
              YDNA STR testing (yDNA12 to yDNA111) does not test any yDNA SNPs

              yDNA SNPs are what determine haplogroup.

              YDNA STR testing predicts a very basic Haplogroup (older parent subclade branch), based on your first 12 marker values.
              If they can't not predict basic haplogroup with 100% confidence based on first 12 STR marker values, they will run a Backbone yDNA SNP test, which tests the SNPs that they give for predictions.



              • #8
                What is the probability that the prediction is completely wrong based on the first 12 str? Like if someone is descendent from a man in Africa but later his sons moved to India and now they look like indians because marriage with the locals? Wont the STR prediction be wrong here?


                • #9
                  Prediction will not be incorrect (very slim chance, as stated they have 100% confidence in predictions) as yDNA (paternal chromosome 23) is passed on virtually unchanged generation to generation, father to son.
                  Descendants may lose the majority of their Africa DNA on their autosomal chromosomes 1 thru 22 ( and on the X in chromosome 23), but the African yDNA will be retained in all males that trace their all male line back to man from Africa.
                  Direct male descendants will be mainly Indian with an African Haplogroup.

                  STR's in the 12 marker level have the slowest mutation rate, while the STR's in the 111 level have the fastest mutation rate, Thus there is very little variance in the 12 marker haplotypes.
                  This is one of the reasons only exact matches are shown for the 12 marker level, and matches up to 10GD on the 111 marker level.
                  Last edited by prairielad; 7 March 2020, 02:24 AM.


                  • #10
                    To clarify about terminology of FTDNA's label of terminal SNP, this is not your not your final SNP which determines your final subclade placement (one that defines your full haplogroup label).
                    Terminal SNP column listed on match lists are the furthest tested positive SNP you or tester has tested positive for.

                    For example, if you ordered just a single SNP test to confirm you are positive for M20 (defines main branch of L haplogroup), your terminal SNP would be listed as L-M20 as that is the Furthest SNP you have tested positive for currently in yDNA tree.
                    Even though your furthermost true "terminal" SNP which defines your full haplogroup label maybe L-BY164513 (hypothetical final subclade)

                    If you wish to find your deeper subclade label you have a few options
                    1)Order the M20 SNP pack for $119USD
                    may or may not get you to your final subclade branch, but it will point you in right direction
                    M20 SNP pack test for the following SNPs
                    L - M20 SNP Pack
                    Includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:
                    M11, M185, M20, M22, M317, M349, PAGES00116, M357, M27, M76, P329, F3987, M2357, SK1418, M2375, BY12388, Z8032, Z20492, Z20493, Z8047, Z20355, Z20366, BY12365, BY12366, BY12367, BY12369, BY12370, BY12371, BY12372, BY12373, BY12374, BY12363, BY12364, Z20396, Z20391, Y15613, PH2400, BY12396, BY12397, Z20499, Z20502, Z20506, Z20505, Y15956, V2609, Y16031, Y15957, Y15959, Y15960, Y24981, SK1433, Y24983, Y24978, Y24985, Y24992, Y24629, Y24497, BY12426, Y19629, Y19631, Y6257, Y6290, Y6268, Y6258, FGC23590, Y6248, BY12424, Y6265, Y6269, Y6262, Y6249, FGC32289, Y6288, Y6251, Y6252, BY12427, BY12428, Y18178, Y18180, Y18192, SK1454, Y17953, Y17966, Y18187, Y18186, Y12420, Y12419, Z20266, Z20273, Z20274, Y12418, M2398, M2533, M2542, M2549, M2557, Y16361, Y16388, Y16365, Y16195, Y16196, SK1412, FGC51037, Y16390, Y16385, BY12532, BY12533, FGC36814, FGC36791, FGC36845, FGC36799, Y18889, Y18890, PH1099, Y18888, Y18891, PH3342, PH8, PH108, PH997, PH1060, PH612, Y16193, PH1371, PH1428, PH1520, BY13003, SK1435, SK1436, Z5924, Z20458, L1320, BY13004, Z20284, B374, Z20571, PH1714, BY13005, SK1414, FGC51036, PH3523, BY13002, PH2079, PH1728, FGC36831

                    Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:
                    B373, SK1415, SK1416, SK1460, SK1461, PK3, SK1463, SK1444, PF5780, PF5533, PAGES00006
                    2)Order BigY, which tests for all known yDNA SNPs and also finds new undiscovered ones.
                    $239USD when ordered on a yDNA111 upgrade.
                    Last edited by prairielad; 7 March 2020, 05:10 PM.