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Can you compare your Paternal haplogroup results with Livingdna, 23andme, and Ftdna?

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  • Can you compare your Paternal haplogroup results with Livingdna, 23andme, and Ftdna?

    I want to see if there similar or different, I'm getting my Livingdna results in a couple of months.

  • #2
    Living DNA gave me down to my haplogroup of U-106 beneath R-M269 same as ftdna but didn't provide the subclade for me. To get a better terminal SNP then this I had to order the backbone pack from ftdna.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Icon24 View Post
      I want to see if there similar or different, I'm getting my Livingdna results in a couple of months.
      Living DNA & 23andMe results offer only very limited Y-DNA haplogroup information. Beware: 23andMe is using an older notation and for comparison purposes you would need to perform a conversion first (however, that is just a minor hassle as it needs to be done only once).

      With Family Tree DNA you can order tests (Big Y test and/or SNP pack tests and/or individual SNP tests) that would offer much more detailed haplogroup information. Moreover, at FTDNA your Y-DNA results can be compared to results of many more Y-DNA testers, than anywhere else.

      For example, at FTDNA instead of just learning that you are R-U106, you could know that you are R-A656. Is that more helpful? It depends on your needs. [[ Insert here Tutorial: Benefits and Methods of Y-DNA Testing for Beginners - September 2017 version ]]


      Mr. W.

      P.S.
      I am not aware of such an up to date tutorial, but you could read the following
      Last edited by dna; 2nd September 2017, 10:28 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by dna View Post
        Beware: 23andMe is using an older notation and for comparison purposes you would need to perform a conversion first (however, that is just a minor hassle as it needs to be done only once).
        That is no longer the case for people with the new experience. 23andme has updated everyone's results, regardless of the chip used, to show the more common shorthand name of the synonymous SNPs that they have been tested for. 23andme v5 now tests for 3,731 Y-DNA positions.

        I don't think many people are still on the old experience at 23andme.
        Last edited by Armando; 3rd September 2017, 06:16 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Icon24 View Post
          I want to see if there similar or different, I'm getting my Livingdna results in a couple of months.
          There are a couple of similar threads in the Anthrogenica forum. LivingDNA has a lot more SNPs than 23andme v5 but when people report what they get at LivingDNA most of the time they are SNPs that are tested by the 23andme v5 chip. LivingDNA won't give you a raw data file of all of your positive and negative SNPs and some people have had either a false positive or a false negative result at LivingDNA. 23andme does provide a list of all of the SNPs that they test you for and you can see for yourself if you have a positive result for an SNP that they didn't report. One 23andme v5 customer has reported that they have the derived allele even though 23andme didn't show them positive for it. Both LivingDNA and 23andme v5 use the Illumina Global Screening Array Chip.

          Neither LivingDNA or 23andme cover as much of the Y-chromosome as BigY which is only surpassed by one company and for a higher price. FTDNA SNP packs many times cover a lot more of specific subclades but they still haven't developed SNP packs for all of the subclades.

          Have you had a 23andme test? If so, which one and what is your haplogroup and subclade?

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          • #6
            Different sub groups.

            Originally posted by Armando View Post
            That is no longer the case for people with the new experience. 23andme has updated everyone's results, regardless of the chip used, to show the more common shorthand name of the synonymous SNPs that they have been tested for. 23andme v5 now tests for 3,731 Y-DNA positions.

            I don't think many people are still on the old experience at 23andme.
            I do not have the V5 chip thought....I contacted Livingdna they said they tested 100 markers for J,150 Markers for E1b1b, 750 Markers for E1b1a, 1500 in total for Haplogroup E. My brother has 208 positive SNPs for 23andme and 1230 negatives SNPs. And the amount of Postive SNPs he has for his particular haplogroup is only 19. Will it could be more cause it seems he has a parrrellel mutation with the other subgroups but I have not counted those ones yet. I think 19 is a bit small.His Haplogroup is E-M4254 according to 23andme or E1b1a1a1g1 according to Moley tree predictor, or E1b1a1a1d1 according to wegene. The names might be a little weird as I only remember one of them having a D in it and the other a G, and another just a couple of aa's and a 2. All I know is that they were not descendants of each other.

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            • #7
              Dna

              I don't know about Livingdna yet, does Big Y test all SNPs or just the ones your predicted positive for?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Icon24 View Post
                I don't know about Livingdna yet, does Big Y test all SNPs or just the ones your predicted positive for?
                Big Y tests about 10 million locations on the y chromosome. Since it's not restricted to finding specific SNPs, it will give results for literally tens of thousands of known SNPs, without regard to the haplogroup, and also find previously unknown SNPs.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Icon24 View Post
                  I do not have the V5 chip thought....I contacted Livingdna they said they tested 100 markers for J,150 Markers for E1b1b, 750 Markers for E1b1a, 1500 in total for Haplogroup E. My brother has 208 positive SNPs for 23andme and 1230 negatives SNPs. And the amount of Postive SNPs he has for his particular haplogroup is only 19. Will it could be more cause it seems he has a parrrellel mutation with the other subgroups but I have not counted those ones yet. I think 19 is a bit small.His Haplogroup is E-M4254 according to 23andme or E1b1a1a1g1 according to Moley tree predictor, or E1b1a1a1d1 according to wegene. The names might be a little weird as I only remember one of them having a D in it and the other a G, and another just a couple of aa's and a 2. All I know is that they were not descendants of each other.
                  The number of SNPs isn't important if many of them are SNPs that aren't in different subclades. That's what seems to happen with what people are reporting at LivingDNA since their terminal SNPs is the same as what is contained in the 23andme v5 test. R1a-Z283, L-M22, I-Z2535, and R-DF19 are the results of people tested by LivingDNA and all of those SNPs are included in the 23andme v5 test. I-S2169 and R-Z195 are results that aren't included in the v5 test but the I-S2169 person had a BigY test and was placed further down the tree at https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y3649/

                  23andme doesn't test for M4254. What 23andme did, at one time, in the new experience was use a phylogenetic equivalent from the 2016 tree. In the 2016 tree M4254 was an equivalent of P277. https://isogg.org/tree/2016/ISOGG_HapgrpE16.html

                  The Morley predictor uses an old ISOGG tree from 2013 so it gave you the longhand haplogroup of P277 that existed at that time which was E1b1a1a1g1. https://isogg.org/tree/2013/ISOGG_HapgrpE13.html

                  Wegene does a similar thing as the Morley predictor but uses the 2015 ISOGG tree as you can see at https://isogg.org/tree/2015/ISOGG_HapgrpE15.html. In a thread at http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=38243 you can see that E1b1a1a1d1 is referenced as P277, U209 (formerly E1b1a8a). It is due to the fact that the longhand name keeps changing that FTDNA and 23andme stopped using the longhand nomenclature. In 2017 the longhand name for P277 is E1b1a1a1a2a1 https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html

                  Here are the downstream subclades from P277 that have been found with NGS testing such as BigY- https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M4254/ LivingDNA will probably only have about 10 of those SNPs.

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                  • #10
                    SNP Plotter

                    Hey I'm trying to use the Isogg tree add on but it does not seem to work.Is it not working anymore or am I doing something wrong?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Icon24 View Post
                      Hey I'm trying to use the Isogg tree add on but it does not seem to work.Is it not working anymore or am I doing something wrong?
                      I have no idea. I don't use it since it isn't necessary. I use the ISOGG database at https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html and the Ybrowse database at http://ybrowse.org/gbrowse2/gff/

                      For example, both of them show M4254 to be at position 21541514 and the mutation is T to A. If you look at your raw data file you will see that 21541514 is not there. So it wouldn't do you any good to have the ability to use the Isogg tree add on. If you look up the position and mutations of P277 and U209 you will see that they are positions 15579215 and 17294958 and that you have the derived alleles. If you look at the Morley predictor results you will see that they are green. The SNPs without a colored background aren't in your raw data file.

                      If you really want to know your most downstream SNP you need to get Y-DNA SNP testing at FTDNA. Preferably through BigY. Until then, even with LivingDNA testing you will be stuck on an SNP that can be found at https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M4254/ and but you will have a lot of downstream SNPs that you don't know if you are positive or negative for.
                      Last edited by Armando; 4th September 2017, 01:49 AM.

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                      • #12
                        My livingDNA is Z60, ftDNA has come in at I-M253.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by buke View Post
                          My livingDNA is Z60, ftDNA has come in at I-M253.
                          FTDNA I-M253(I1)usually is just a predicted Basic Haplogroup based off of ones first 12 STR markers, no actual SNP testing.
                          STR tests only test STRs, no SNPs tested unless they can not predict with 100% confidence your Basic Haplogroup (SNP Assurance program)
                          At FTDNA one has to do SNP testing in order to get a non predicted basic Haplogroup.

                          I-Z60 (I1a2a1a1)will be due to SNP testing by LivingDNA

                          FTDNA SNP Assurance (on all STR tests)
                          https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...nce-program-2/

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by buke View Post
                            My livingDNA is Z60, ftDNA has come in at I-M253.
                            If you were to take advantage of the BigY sale then when you get the BigY results you will get a Y-DNA report more complete than 23andme and FTDNA SNP packs or the predicted SNP you got from an STR test.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for the replies. As a result, I have ordered the ftDNA suggested I1 - M253 SNP Pack.

                              I'll look into the BigY next year.

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