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100% European with African Y-DNA

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  • 100% European with African Y-DNA

    I took part in the Genographic project und had my sample transferred to FTDNA in order to confirm and refine the results. I am ethnically German but with 68% Eastern European, 27% Scandinavian and some 5% Siberian genetic makeup my reference group is Russian, which is not surprising as my maternal ancestors come from Eastern Europe, my paternal ancestors form Bohemia. The strange thing is that both tests reveiled my Y-DNA haplogroup as being E V-32(genographic project) and E-Z 16659 (ftdna), which does not seem to have been confirmed outside of African populations so far ( at least I haven't yet found any helpful information). In both projects I am being told that my ancestry has somehow moved from Somalia to North Africa, that I am having Berber cousins and things like that. Does anyone have an idea how these genes ended up in Bohemia (my great-grandfather's home region)? Thanks for any suggestions.

  • #2
    NG's classification, E-V32, looks Middle Eastern: Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Kenya.

    FTDNA's classification, E-Z16659, makes much more sense for you: Ukraine, Russia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, etc. But YFull says that Z16659 is roughly 3900 years old, so it has had some time to "get around" to countries across Europe and beyond.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 18th April 2016, 09:04 AM.

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    • #3
      Yes, your are right FTDNA's classification E-Z16659 would make more sense if you consider YFull. But exactly like in the case of E-V32 (E1b1ba1a2) - which by the way is said to be way older than E-Z16659 - the migration map at FTDNA indicates, at least in my case, a migration path from eastern to northern Africa and not further.
      Anyway, a few weeks ago FTDNA considered my sample belonging to the I1 haplogroup. Who knows, what comes next.

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      • #4
        My father's paternal line is Austrian but his Y-dna haplogroup is also E ( E-L117). In my father's case the Y-haplogroup probably comes from the Romans, Roman soldiers of Balkan ancestry, the remnants of the Holy Roman Empire. Maybe it is the same in your situation? But I'm still doing my research, so this is just a suggestion, nothing sure yet.
        Last edited by Dora; 19th April 2016, 05:26 AM.

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        • #5
          Some of my male cousins carry the y-haplogroup E-P277 (which is Subsaharan African), yet show 100% European in their autosomal DNA result. This is because our male African ancestor was many generations ago in colonial Virginia.

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          • #6
            Interesting stories! Austria has a strong Balkan-Slavic Substrate, particularily in the south and the east. The Slavs are believed to have entered the Region in the 6th or the century, that is after the Romans had left. I wonder whether it is possible to distinguish between these two possible ancestral lines just by comparing YDNA-haplotypes.
            I guess everybody enjoys coherent explanations like the one about the African ancestor in Virgia. But the Genographic Project has given to me a rather bizarre (at least in my eyes) migration map: Like everybody else's ancestors my paternal line started in East Africa, then the moved northwards to Egypt and stayed there for a while. Then, out of the blue they popped up in Turkey, moved a little upwards along the Balkans. For some reason they finally reappear in North Africa and move back to Kenia/Somalia, that's it - rather erratic journey I'd say. Is there any means to connect the dots?

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            • #7
              I think that the E1b1b haplogroup was likely associated with the migration of Neolithic farmers from Anatolia into the Balkans, with some settlements extending along the Danube River. This is what happened in the cultural assemblage called Old Europe, which lasted from about 6000 BC to 4000 BC in the Balkans. To this day, the Balkans have a higher than normal concentration of E1b1b.

              Timothy Peterman

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              • #8
                Another result like this: my paternal uncle just received his results: predicted E-M35. The admin of the project sorted him in the E-V13 cluster, which is E1b1b1a1b1a.
                I am really astonished about the result. My paternal line is recontructable by proven documents till 1831 in the German Rhine area. So I wonder, if the old origins were Roman soldiers or slaves from Iberia, the Maghreb or if I have a hidden Jewish line?

                I guess I will never find out... Nevertheless, it´s very exciting to learn and read about this in several internet studies.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Petra View Post
                  The admin of the project sorted him in the E-V13 cluster, which is E1b1b1a1b1a.
                  E-V13 has a Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) of 4300 years. You can see from the geographical designations on the haplotree entries that E-V13 really got around.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks, lgmayka, for this great link to the tree. Wow, I see, that there are even E-V13 subclusters found in Norway! The highest cumulation nowadays is on the Balkans, I´ve read, but not the original "founder area". Is there any new study, on the probably place of origins and the different wanderroute?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LiKe View Post
                      Interesting stories! Austria has a strong Balkan-Slavic Substrate, particularily in the south and the east. The Slavs are believed to have entered the Region in the 6th or the century, that is after the Romans had left. I wonder whether it is possible to distinguish between these two possible ancestral lines just by comparing YDNA-haplotypes.
                      I guess everybody enjoys coherent explanations like the one about the African ancestor in Virgia. But the Genographic Project has given to me a rather bizarre (at least in my eyes) migration map: Like everybody else's ancestors my paternal line started in East Africa, then the moved northwards to Egypt and stayed there for a while. Then, out of the blue they popped up in Turkey, moved a little upwards along the Balkans. For some reason they finally reappear in North Africa and move back to Kenia/Somalia, that's it - rather erratic journey I'd say. Is there any means to connect the dots?
                      Well, I'm not sure if my Austrian paternal line E-L117 has any Balkan/Slavic roots, it's just a hypothesis, probably not. My great-grandfather was born near Vienna, but the family was also, like yours, originally German, from Württemberg. It is probably more possible, like Timothy Peterman says, that our E1b1b haplogroup is associated with the migration of Neolithic farmers from Anatolia into the Balkans, so the roots would not be Balkan. Anyway, I'm curious, from which part of Germany your paternal family comes? Could you let me know? Maybe we match in the Y-dna results?
                      Last edited by Dora; 21st April 2016, 06:27 AM.

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                      • #12
                        @Dora: My grandfather was born in northern Bohemia, now part of Czech Republic, which was, at the time of his birth, part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. Our ancestors may have emigrated earlier from some other part of the German speaking region, but that must have been ages ago. The oldest documents we could find date back to the 17th century, if I am not mistaken.
                        As for the E1b1b haplotype it is said to have originated in Africa, then spread to the Near East and from there to the Balkans. So I don't see any contradiction between Timothy Petermann's suggestion and the Slavic theory.
                        E1b1b is also said to have been the haplotype of many other peoples in the Mediterrenan Region. I guess it is to unspecific to be related to a certain region. What subtype is it (E M-81 (North Africa)or E-M78 with E-V22 (Phoenicians) and E-V13 (Balkan type) ?
                        BTW: Have you ever looked at that one: http://www.academia.edu/6089365/Orig...p_E1b1b_Y-DNA_ ?

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                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=Petra;424991]Another result like this: my paternal uncle just received his results: predicted E-M35. The admin of the project sorted him in the E-V13 cluster, which is E1b1b1a1b1a.
                          I am really astonished about the result. My paternal line is recontructable by proven documents till 1831 in the German Rhine area. So I wonder, if the old origins were Roman soldiers or slaves from Iberia, the Maghreb or if I have a hidden Jewish line?

                          QUOTE]
                          Why not Roman soldiers from the Balkan Region, as suggested in this project:
                          https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/e-v13/about

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                          • #14
                            QUOTE]
                            Why not Roman soldiers from the Balkan Region, as suggested in this project:
                            https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/e-v13/about[/QUOTE]

                            @ LiKe:
                            Oh, just because I was very tired (it was some hours past midnight here in Europe ;-) and forgot to mention the Balkans. I knew that soldiers and slaves were sent by the Romans souvereigns in each part of the empire. My idea was focused on westsouth Europe + Sardinia, because of the composition of ancestries in MyOrigins and DNA.Land of the kit owner. And your are right, to remember me of the east Med., as he has also some % there.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LiKe View Post
                              @Dora: My grandfather was born in northern Bohemia, now part of Czech Republic, which was, at the time of his birth, part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. Our ancestors may have emigrated earlier from some other part of the German speaking region, but that must have been ages ago. The oldest documents we could find date back to the 17th century, if I am not mistaken.
                              As for the E1b1b haplotype it is said to have originated in Africa, then spread to the Near East and from there to the Balkans. So I don't see any contradiction between Timothy Petermann's suggestion and the Slavic theory.
                              E1b1b is also said to have been the haplotype of many other peoples in the Mediterrenan Region. I guess it is to unspecific to be related to a certain region. What subtype is it (E M-81 (North Africa)or E-M78 with E-V22 (Phoenicians) and E-V13 (Balkan type) ?
                              BTW: Have you ever looked at that one: http://www.academia.edu/6089365/Orig...p_E1b1b_Y-DNA_ ?
                              Like,

                              What I meant was, that I would not call this E1b1b Europeans ' Slavic ' cause they came from the Middle East relatively recently and later populated the Balkans, so that's why I said that the root is not Balkan / Slavic. Slavic men mostly belong to haplogroup R, as far as I know. But of course you know all that and we have just misunderstood each other. Well, I do not know my father's exact subtype yet, so I can only speculate while waiting for further results. Maybe my subtype is completely different than yours.
                              In my origins my father is:
                              49 % Eastern Europe ( after his mother mostly )
                              44 % Western and Central Europe
                              and 6% Middle Eastern.

                              I kind of hope that he turns out to be a little bit Egyptian )

                              Thank you for the link - yes, I know this article.
                              Last edited by Dora; 21st April 2016, 04:26 PM.

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