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No matches at all on Y111 markers for a year

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  • No matches at all on Y111 markers for a year

    OK, I know I probably should know this. I manage my husbands kit and ran the Ylll marker test a year ago. Haplogroup N...He still has NO matches in the 111 markers. The big Y run in Feb where he does have matches. Can someone explain to me why no matches at all on the Y111 markers and still have on the big Y? Thanks for input.

  • #2
    That's the reason I won't do the Y111 test, I would have no matches because I only have one 66/67 match at the Y67 test, and I am in a very common Ydna group I1..now I59...I would think most I1,s have numerous matches but not me.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by suemae View Post
      OK, I know I probably should know this. I manage my husbands kit and ran the Ylll marker test a year ago. Haplogroup N...He still has NO matches in the 111 markers. The big Y run in Feb where he does have matches. Can someone explain to me why no matches at all on the Y111 markers and still have on the big Y? Thanks for input.
      12 marker to 111 marker matching is based on STR values(Short Tandem Repeats), Big Y matching is based on SNP values (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism)

      https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ig-y-matching/

      Your Big Y matches are probably further back in time to be relevant. You and Big Y matches share the same Haplogroup subclade (terminal SNP) but based on fact that the Big Y matches have more then 10 differences on the 111 STR matching level, this would suggest common ancestor is further back in time.

      Note: Do these Big Y matches show that they have also tested to the 111 STR marker level?

      https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ook-snps-strs/

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by prairielad View Post
        [----] Note: Do these Big Y matches show that they have also tested to the 111 STR marker level? [----]
        One cannot see that unless they are a match at Y-DNA12, or Y-DNA25, or Y-DNA37, or Y-DNA67, and they allow to be seen through proper Y-DNA Matches and Email Notifications settings.

        @suemae, how many matches does your husband have at Y-DNA67 level?

        In general, with more STRs being compared, there are less matches, even with the allowed Genetic Distance (GD) increasing from 0 @ Y-DNA12****, through 2 @ Y-DNA25, 4 @ Y-DNA37, 7 @ Y-DNA67, to 10 @ Y-DNA111.

        Mr. W

        **** For comparisons within a project, GD=1 is also allowed. Additionally, members of the Adoptee Project see Y-DNA12 matches with GD=0 and GD=1.

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        • #5
          Yes, but...

          From the Family Tree DNA Learning Center
          http://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y...ve-information
          Do more Y-DNA STR markers improve the quality of matches’ information?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dna View Post
            One cannot see that unless they are a match at Y-DNA12, or Y-DNA25, or Y-DNA37, or Y-DNA67, and they allow to be seen through proper Y-DNA Matches and Email Notifications settings.

            @suemae, how many matches does your husband have at Y-DNA67 level?

            In general, with more STRs being compared, there are less matches, even with the allowed Genetic Distance (GD) increasing from 0 @ Y-DNA12****, through 2 @ Y-DNA25, 4 @ Y-DNA37, 7 @ Y-DNA67, to 10 @ Y-DNA111.

            Mr. W

            **** For comparisons within a project, GD=1 is also allowed. Additionally, members of the Adoptee Project see Y-DNA12 matches with GD=0 and GD=1.

            Comment


            • #7
              No MATCHES

              Originally posted by dna View Post
              One cannot see that unless they are a match at Y-DNA12, or Y-DNA25, or Y-DNA37, or Y-DNA67, and they allow to be seen through proper Y-DNA Matches and Email Notifications settings.

              @suemae, how many matches does your husband have at Y-DNA67 level?

              In general, with more STRs being compared, there are less matches, even with the allowed Genetic Distance (GD) increasing from 0 @ Y-DNA12****, through 2 @ Y-DNA25, 4 @ Y-DNA37, 7 @ Y-DNA67, to 10 @ Y-DNA111.

              Mr. W

              **** For comparisons within a project, GD=1 is also allowed. Additionally, members of the Adoptee Project see Y-DNA12 matches with GD=0 and GD=1.
              Thanks for reply, he has NO matches at any level! Zip! none even at 12, 25, 37, 67 or 111.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by suemae View Post
                Thanks for reply, he has NO matches at any level! Zip! none even at 12, 25, 37, 67 or 111.
                Are any of the STR values 0 ?

                Especially among the first 12 markers?

                Mr. W

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                • #9
                  No matches

                  Originally posted by Odis View Post
                  That's the reason I won't do the Y111 test, I would have no matches because I only have one 66/67 match at the Y67 test, and I am in a very common Ydna group I1..now I59...I would think most I1,s have numerous matches but not me.
                  At least you have one...there is No matches at any level of his Y dna test. I know he has a uncommon group N1c1, but matches do show up on the Big Y.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No MATCHES

                    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                    12 marker to 111 marker matching is based on STR values(Short Tandem Repeats), Big Y matching is based on SNP values (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism)

                    https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ig-y-matching/

                    Your Big Y matches are probably further back in time to be relevant. You and Big Y matches share the same Haplogroup subclade (terminal SNP) but based on fact that the Big Y matches have more then 10 differences on the 111 STR matching level, this would suggest common ancestor is further back in time.

                    Note: Do these Big Y matches show that they have also tested to the 111 STR marker level?

                    https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ook-snps-strs/
                    Thanks for reply..As to your ? I don't know how many markers they have tested for from the big Y. The closest match on the big Y is not shown in the project...also does not come up on FF.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by suemae View Post
                      At least you have one...there is No matches at any level of his Y dna test. I know he has a uncommon group N1c1, but matches do show up on the Big Y.
                      If you haven't read prairielad's reply to you at http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...74&postcount=3, read it. He answers your question above.

                      Basically, the time scale of mutations of STRs (as in the 111 markers that your husband has tested) versus the time scale of mutations of the SNPs (the 10+ million locations on the y chromosome tested in Big Y by your husband) are very different. STR mutations occur much more often than SNP mutations. Most of the matches your husband has in Big Y are relate to a common ancestor several hundred to several thousand years ago. In order to show up as match at the level of 111 STRs, the common ancestor must be in the last few hundred years.

                      The question is what you and your husband are hoping to find from either the 111 markers or the Big Y results. If he wants to find someone with whom he shares a common paternal line ancestor in the last few hundred years, then he'll have to wait for matches to show up at the 37, 67 or 111 marker level. (In most cases, matches at 12 and 25 markers are too unreliable to share a common ancestor in a genealogical time frame.) If your husband is interested in finding the SNPs in his paternal line that are less than 1,000 years old or in helping to find new branches in the haplotree of his subclade, then the Big Y results would be more important.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm surprised...

                        Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                        ...In order to show up as match at the level of 111 STRs, the common ancestor must be in the last few hundred years...
                        I've never heard this before. So... even if the match is 101/111, the common ancestor will be within the last few hundred years? Would this be within 500? 700? 200?

                        kathy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mystery of no STR matches?

                          @suemae

                          Your husband has no STR markers with "0" value.

                          What about markers DYS385, DYS464 and DYS425 ?
                          • More than 2 values for DYS385 ?
                          • More than 4 values for DYS464 ?
                          • More than 1 value for DYS425 ?

                          Your answer yes, to any of the above three questions, would start explaining lack of STR matches.

                          Mr. W

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            @kathy
                            Originally posted by GoofusBroadway View Post
                            I've never heard this before. So... even if the match is 101/111, the common ancestor will be within the last few hundred years? Would this be within 500? 700? 200?

                            kathy
                            For 8-10 markers difference, the table included in Expected Relationships with Y-DNA STR Matches http://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y...ionship-match/ indicates a horizon of at least 16 generation. That would be at least 400-480-560 years (counting 25-30-35 per generation).

                            Mr. W

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GoofusBroadway View Post
                              I've never heard this before. So... even if the match is 101/111, the common ancestor will be within the last few hundred years? Would this be within 500? 700? 200?

                              kathy
                              https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...s-interpreted/

                              "A 101/111 match indicates a distant cousinship with some chance of a distant genealogical relationship. Over half of matches at this level are related as 15th cousins or closer. Most matches at this level are related as 22nd cousins or more recently. The connections here can be highly informative for relationships with historic groups and events. If there is a tradition of a recent genealogical relationship, the best way to confirm it is to test additional family lines. By testing additional family lines, you can find the person in between who is a closer match to each of the others tested. This ‘in betweener’ is essential for you to find as their match proves the connection between the more distant matches."

                              Related in This Number of Generations or LESS


                              Confidence


                              50% 16 generations (400 years @ 25years/generation)

                              90% 23 generations (575 years @ 25years/generation)

                              95% 25 generations (625 years @ 25years/generation)

                              99% 29 generations (725 years @ 25years/generation)

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