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My 23&me Y DNA results R1b1b2a1a

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  • My 23&me Y DNA results R1b1b2a1a

    I just got back my 23&Me results and they say my Y-DNA is
    R1b1b2a1a. What is this new Haplogroup name in FTDNA's way of assigning haplogroup names?

    My maternal line according to 23&me is H1

    Larry

  • #2
    Go to the Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper and enter the long label in the query box.

    link removed
    In your case, there are four "phylogenetically equivalent" SNPs. FTDNA would use just one of these.

    variant call anc der
    rs13304168 (L52) C T
    rs9785659 (P311) A G
    rs9786076 (L11) T C
    rs9786283 (P310) A C

    The FTDNA tree has split out P311 to a new level, so you would be R-P311. FTDNA also offers testing for SNPs below P311.
    Last edited by Darren; 25 August 2015, 11:23 PM. Reason: please no links to outside companies

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    • #3
      The SNPs that Ann posted, your most downstream SNPs (according to 23andMe), are one level above the main European R1b subclades, P312 and U106. You'll probably find that your result for U106 (aka M405, rs16981293) is negative, since they didn't give you the R1b1b2a1a1 designation.

      However, 23andMe does not include P312 on their testing chip, so you don't have a result for that. (The yDNA testing on 23andMe's chip is frozen in time to what was known about the yDNA tree in 2009.) A strong majority of European R1b men are P312+, so there's a very good chance that you are too.

      The only way to find out is to do SNP testing at FTDNA. Perhaps you've already done that and know your P312 status. If you haven't done any SNP testing here yet, a good choice would be the new R1b-M343 Backbone SNP pack. It tests 141 different SNPs relevant to R-M269 men, including P312 and many of its subclades.

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      • #4
        I have my dad tested at Y-67 here at FTDNA and I ordered the R1b-M343 SNP backbone test for him several weeks ago.He was predicted R-M269 last year they changed him to P312 then went he went back to M269.

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        • #5
          The 23andme haplogroups are from 2009. See http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR09.html

          23andme also tests for L21 which is R1b1b2a1a2f and U152 which is R1b1b2a1a2d. So you are also negative for those since you weren't assigned those haplogroups.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Armando View Post
            The 23andme haplogroups are from 2009. See http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR09.html

            23andme also tests for L21 which is R1b1b2a1a2f and U152 which is R1b1b2a1a2d. So you are also negative for those since you weren't assigned those haplogroups.
            Ah! Thanks for letting me know that.

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            • #7
              Was R-U106 one of the SNP's in the M343 backbone test? I saw a listing of all the SNP somewhere that were in the pack but don't remember where I saw it.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LarryBurford View Post
                Was R-U106 one of the SNP's in the M343 backbone test? I saw a listing of all the SNP somewhere that were in the pack but don't remember where I saw it.
                Yes, it's the second largest branch of European R-M269 men (after P312), so it made a lot of sense to include it in the backbone pack. If they hadn't included it in the backbone test, it would have been a major blunder. The administrators of the R1b-U106 Project recently met with FTDNA and also gotten a couple of other SNPS of important U106 subclades added to the backbone pack that hadn't been placed on it in the planning stages.

                We expect that FTDNA will have 6 or so SNP packs for those who are U106 available within the next several weeks. (Given the large number of SNPs/subclades under U106 discovered in over 400 Big Y results of R1b-U106 Project members, it will take that many SNP packs to have full coverage of the U106 branch.) One of these, for the Z18 subclade, has been available since early this summer. Then those who are U106+ in the R1b-M343 backbone pack can order a pack which will bring them down their branch as far as is presently possible, other than by ordering Big Y.
                Last edited by MMaddi; 26 August 2015, 08:28 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                  Yes, it's the second largest branch of European R-M269 men (after P312), so it made a lot of sense to include it in the backbone pack. If they hadn't included it in the backbone test, it would have been a major blunder. The administrators of the R1b-U106 Project recently met with FTDNA and also gotten a couple of other SNPS of important U106 subclades added to the backbone pack that hadn't been placed on it in the planning stages.

                  We expect that FTDNA will have 6 or so SNP packs for those who are U106 available within the next several weeks. (Given the large number of SNPs/subclades under U106 discovered in over 400 Big Y results of R1b-U106 Project members, it will take that many SNP packs to have full coverage of the U106 branch.) One of these, for the Z18 subclade, has been available since early this summer. Then those who are U106+ in the R1b-M343 backbone pack can order a pack which will bring them down their branch as far as is presently possible, other than by ordering Big Y.
                  This sounds great. I can't wait for my dad's results to post.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Armando View Post
                    The 23andme haplogroups are from 2009. See http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR09.html

                    23andme also tests for L21 which is R1b1b2a1a2f and U152 which is R1b1b2a1a2d. So you are also negative for those since you weren't assigned those haplogroups.
                    A word of caution... 23andMe has (had...) a notorious rep for high no-call rates which created confusion on haplo assignments. I personally would check before running with assumed negatives.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hansonrf View Post
                      A word of caution... 23andMe has (had...) a notorious rep for high no-call rates which created confusion on haplo assignments. I personally would check before running with assumed negatives.
                      I've never heard of someone that was proven to U106, L21, or U152 at FTDNA, Geno 2.0, Yseq, or BritainsDNA that ended up with a no-call for any of those markers at 23andme. Do you have evidence of that ever happening?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Armando View Post
                        I've never heard of someone that was proven to U106, L21, or U152 at FTDNA, Geno 2.0, Yseq, or BritainsDNA that ended up with a no-call for any of those markers at 23andme. Do you have evidence of that ever happening?
                        No. That's a pretty restrictive, if existent, subset but should not discredit my concern/suggestion.

                        I have evidence of no-calls at 23andMe and on their forums there are many threads dealing with confusion over haplo assignment differences between close family members where that was the reason. I just suggested verifying; it is easy to do, and frustrating to chase a red herring.

                        L21 is rs11799226 and U152 is rs1236440
                        Last edited by hansonrf; 28 August 2015, 09:33 AM. Reason: add SNPs

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hansonrf View Post
                          No. That's a pretty restrictive, if existent, subset but should not discredit my concern/suggestion.

                          I have evidence of no-calls at 23andMe and on their forums there are many threads dealing with confusion over haplo assignment differences between close family members where that was the reason. I just suggested verifying; it is easy to do, and frustrating to chase a red herring.

                          L21 is rs11799226 and U152 is rs1236440
                          What's happened on the 23andme forums and what has happened in this specific thread are two different things. I already knew about no-calls with other SNPs but U106, L21, and U152 is a different story.

                          If there has never been a person at 23andme with the haplogroup R1b1b2a1a reported to have had a no-call for U106, L21, or U152 then I can continue to say with the same certainty as before that he is negative for U106, L21, and U152. That will also be proven with the R1b-M343 SNP backbone test results of his father.

                          L21 is G at rs11799226 and given the haplogroup assignment R1b1b2a1a2f

                          U152 is T at rs1236440 and given the haplogroup assignment R1b1b2a1a2d

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LarryBurford View Post
                            I have my dad tested at Y-67 here at FTDNA and I ordered the R1b-M343 SNP backbone test for him several weeks ago.He was predicted R-M269 last year they changed him to P312 then went he went back to M269.
                            @Larry
                            I think that you are DF27.The modal at ysearch that you are closest to is L176.2, ID YEZQN.
                            Last edited by 1798; 30 August 2015, 12:06 PM.

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                            • #15
                              My results are back R-Z198

                              My Dad's backbone test came back this evening. I have attached a copy of his certificate. He is R-Z198. How do I show a progression from oldest haplogroup down to Z-R198? I want to have a progressionlike this from R-M269>***>***>***> R-Z198 I get lost on the haplotree. Is this a subgroup of DF27? Is there a R-Z198 group to join?

                              Larry Burford Jr.
                              Attached Files

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