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Subclades and Direct Lineage

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  • Subclades and Direct Lineage

    If one man is predicted to be in Haplotype / Subclade R-L21 and another man is confirmed to be in Haplotype / Subclade R-L148, is there any possibility they share an immediate common paternal relative? In other words, is it possible they are siblings, father/son, first cousins?

    From what I understand, they are too far apart to be, but I want to be sure. The webinar did not cover SNPs - it went a bit over on the Y-STR markers and they will cover it on another webinar.

    Also, is there any way of knowing approximately how long ago each subclade split from the others? A rough guestimate is good enough, such as years, decades, centuries, millennia, etc.

    Thanks for any help understanding!

  • #2
    Originally posted by cybrsage View Post
    If one man is predicted to be in Haplotype / Subclade R-L21 and another man is confirmed to be in Haplotype / Subclade R-L148, is there any possibility they share an immediate common paternal relative? In other words, is it possible they are siblings, father/son, first cousins?

    From what I understand, they are too far apart to be, but I want to be sure. The webinar did not cover SNPs - it went a bit over on the Y-STR markers and they will cover it on another webinar.

    Also, is there any way of knowing approximately how long ago each subclade split from the others? A rough guestimate is good enough, such as years, decades, centuries, millennia, etc.

    Thanks for any help understanding!
    Because R-L148+ is downstream from R-U106+ and because R-L21+ is downstream from R-P312+ and because R-P312+ and R-U106+ are two old distinct branches that are downstream from R-L11+, you are correct when you state that R-L21+ and R-L148+ are too far apart to be closely related. The R-P312+/R-U106+ split occurred at least 4000 years ago (I do not have a more precise estimate of how long ago that split occurred).

    Although it is not possible for two full brothers or a father and son to have disparate Y chromosome SNPs, it is possible, to use your example, for a person to have R-L21+ and for his first cousin to have R-L148+ provided, for instance, that one cousin's mother, whose husband has R-L148+, is a sister of the other cousin's father who has R-L21+.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Stephen Parrish View Post
      Because R-L148+ is downstream from R-U106+ and because R-L21+ is downstream from R-P312+ and because R-P312+ and R-U106+ are two old distinct branches that are downstream from R-L11+, you are correct when you state that R-L21+ and R-L148+ are too far apart to be closely related. The R-P312+/R-U106+ split occurred at least 4000 years ago (I do not have a more precise estimate of how long ago that split occurred).

      Although it is not possible for two full brothers or a father and son to have disparate Y chromosome SNPs, it is possible, to use your example, for a person to have R-L21+ and for his first cousin to have R-L148+ provided, for instance, that one cousin's mother, whose husband has R-L148+, is a sister of the other cousin's father who has R-L21+.
      AH! (inset picture of a light bulb going off)

      Yes, it makes sense they could be first cousins through the maternal side. That would also mean they cannot be first cousins on the paternal side. That should have been obvious to me, since the Haplotype / Subclades in question is Y based. They could be related, just distantly.

      Thank you VERY much for this clarification.

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