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  • SNP Z36

    There are some posts about this SNP on anthrogenica. Z36 is under U152. One of the posters has 60 SNPs from his FG test and reckons it could be 5500-6000ybp.That would put the age of P312 further into the past.

  • #2
    There have not yet been enough full y genome tests to allow us to establish father-to-son SNP mutation rates. Eventually maybe, but not yet, so I would not jump the gun with claims about the age of this or that y haplogroup.

    We need some father and son pairs to test in order to establish the SNP rate.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Stevo View Post
      There have not yet been enough full y genome tests to allow us to establish father-to-son SNP mutation rates. Eventually maybe, but not yet, so I would not jump the gun with claims about the age of this or that y haplogroup.

      We need some father and son pairs to test in order to establish the SNP rate.
      Do you think that L21>DF13>df41 are all father to son SNPs?

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      • #4
        Based on the available information, one would have to say yes. There could be other SNPs that have yet to be discovered. Would be more accurate to describe L21 as ancestral to DF 13, which is ancestral to DF41.

        Timothy Peterman

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          Do you think that L21>DF13>df41 are all father to son SNPs?
          Well, I know of one DF41+ father and son pair about to have SNP results. My dear 83-year-old dad is waiting for his Geno 2.0 results, which I hope are coming soon.

          Actually, I'm more interested in what his mtDNA haplogroup is.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by T E Peterman View Post
            Based on the available information, one would have to say yes. There could be other SNPs that have yet to be discovered. Would be more accurate to describe L21 as ancestral to DF 13, which is ancestral to DF41.

            Timothy Peterman
            Are you saying that there are 30 years between L21 and DF13 and the same between DF13 and DF41?

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            • #7
              Who knows? There could be. But the SNPs don't contain that sort of information. The word "ancestral" is preferred here because it could be one generation or fifty generations. We just don't know how many generations.

              Timothy Peterman

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              • #8
                Well, the father of the first DF41+ man was definitely DF13+, and the father of the first DF13+ man was definitely L21+.

                As far as we know, there are no intervening SNPs, so that appears to be it.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by T E Peterman View Post
                  Who knows? There could be. But the SNPs don't contain that sort of information. The word "ancestral" is preferred here because it could be one generation or fifty generations. We just don't know how many generations.

                  Timothy Peterman
                  It is by finding the difference in years between SNPs that we will be able to determine the age of a haplogroup or subgroup, not by YSTRS. They are not reliable.

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                  • #10
                    Very true. But how, short of using strs to get an idea, do we determine difference in years?

                    SNP data can allow us to arrange a haplogroup hierarchically, but can't put hard generations or years to anything.

                    Integrating distribution data (including geography & str variability) can help put outer limits around what is plausible. IMHO, the more results from all over, the better.

                    Clades should not be studied in isolation. Get an age estimate for U106, for P312, L21, etc, using a variety of different means. Little by little, the picture becomes clearer.

                    Timothy Peterman

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