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Haplogroup J2 _A457

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  • Haplogroup J2 _A457

    Recently,I received a notification about a new 35/37 STR match.

    Surname of my new match : Maurizio

    View below the surname's distribution in Italy :

    http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cog...liani/MAURIZIO

    1) My first close match was in 2006 and the surname was Penso

    33/37 STRs

    His most distant ancestor was from : Chioggia,Veneto

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chioggia


    2) Then in 2007 another match whose surname was Penzo.

    34/37 & 60/67

    His most distant ancestor was from Veneto

    The surname's distribution in Italy.

    http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/PENZO

    So individuals,that have tested positive for A457 in chronological order.

    Me (2014),my son (2014),Penso (2015) and Penzo (2016).

    Maurizio will also be positive if he decides to test for A457

    Maurizio is a 34/37 STR match with Penzo ( whose DNA I manage )

    A457's position in the Hap. J2 research tree ( need to do a bit of scrolling )

    http://tree.j2-m172.info/?Hg=J2a&V=BasicSub

    From now on I will be using this thread only to notify members about A457 (Current status : private SNP )

    M67>PF5132>PF7394>PF7395>[A457]

    Private SNP:

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Private_SNP

    A457 background information :

    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-06/1402073036

  • #2
    Originally posted by CNT View Post
    Recently,I received a notification about a new 35/37 STR match.

    Surname of my new match : Maurizio

    View below the surname's distribution in Italy :

    http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cog...liani/MAURIZIO

    His most distant ancestor was from Loano,Liguria early 1700s

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loano

    Also this MAURIZIO's surname appears as ( from 1700s onwards )

    " Maurizio de Mohrenfeld "

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CNT View Post
      Maurizio will also be positive if he decides to test for A457
      The person managing his DNA has ordered the A457 test.

      I'll let you know when the result is in.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have been informed , that MAURIZIO has joined FTDNA's J2 Y DNA project and you can view his results.

        https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults page 3 : near the top of table.

        FTDNA lists the match as 35/37 STR, but on comparing Maurizio's and my son's results the only real difference is
        on DYS447 ( DYS 464 palindromic region )

        Thus I think it is safe to say,that the match should be 36/37 STRs.

        I am also 35/37 STR Match with my son - ( difference palindromic region )

        Thomas Krahn, who first found A457, is welcome to comment on what I have said above - he is the expert.

        Like I have said in a previous message MAURIZIO's surname also has De Mohrenfeld on the end ( 1700s onwards )

        So - " Maurizio de Mohrenfeld " also in Austria it is found as " Maurizio Von Mohrenfeld ".

        Maurizio's most distant ancestor is from Loano,Liguria - 1710 -1790.

        I think,that he has a link with Venice ( but more genealogical research needed on his behalf )

        Genealogical records in northern Italy go back further, for the average person, than they do in the south.

        Comment


        • #5
          I feel, that I need to explain a few things in more detail.

          My current surname is a locative.

          Etymology of Tsirigakis :

          Cerigo ( Italian name for Kythera ) > Tsirigo ( how a Greek would pronounce Cerigo ) > Tsirig + akis ( suffix found in Cretan surnames )> Tsirigakis

          In other words my surname means : A Cretan hailing from the island of Cerigo/Kythera ( Southern Cerigo was inhabited by many Cretans during the Venetian period )

          The " Ts " in my surname is pronounced like the Z in German.

          My Y-DNA line ancestor ( plus another ancestral line ) left Cerigo/Crete during the Cretan war of 1645-1669.

          Also, my family's oral history says that he was a Captain, and that he travelled to Venetian controlled Corfu with his family.

          For about the last decade I have said on different fora, that the weight of the evidence( DNA,historical and genealogical ) suggests that geneflow was from Italy > Greece.

          My research is work in progress and there are many aspects of my work that are not in the public domain.

          So when I feel comfortable, that I have made more progress then I will say more in public.

          Comment


          • #6
            All of what is written below followed after I was notified about my new match with MAURIZIO

            ( I have explained in another post why this 35/37 match should be seen as being 36/37 )

            Last week I wrote an e-mail to prof.Aspasia Papadaki, the head of state archives in Rethymnon,Crete.

            Asking if she had more information regarding the noble Cretan MAURICI ( Maurizio ) family.

            * please note , that another colleague of the professors has helped me before hand with this family, but
            I'll mention her important contribution at a later date after all the information has been processed *

            Prof.Papadaki referred me to her academia.edu work : " Venetian nobles of Crete during the 16th century "

            http://tinyurl.com/gnkf2cl ( In Greek )

            The Maurici/Maurizio family is mentioned on p 311 -312 and they gained Cretan Noble status on
            19th,March,1575 - there were 4 brothers ( Konstantis ,Nicolos,Michel and Manolis )

            So now I am trying to see if my Tsirigakis family is connected to the noble Maurici/Maurizio family of Crete.

            ( Don't forget,that my line has had a surname change - something,that I have mentioned in the past )

            This research could take anything from 6 months to two years to complete -I need to go through 50 plus years
            of primary source archives

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CNT View Post

              Prof.Papadaki referred me to her academia.edu work : " Venetian nobles of Crete during the 16th century "

              http://tinyurl.com/gnkf2cl ( In Greek )

              The Maurici/Maurizio family is mentioned on p 311 -312 and they gained Cretan Noble status on 19th,March,1575 - there were 4 brothers ( Konstantis ,Nicolos,Michel and Manolis )
              In addition I would like to mention the following ( from ASV and Hellenic institute Venice ) :

              Konstantis ( Costantino di Zorzi Maurici ) was a Cretan nobleman, merchant and shipowner.

              Also a member of the Greek confraternity of Venice (Scuola di San Niccolò dei Greci)

              Konstantis' grandfather Costantino Maurici da Corone moved to Crete in the 1530s.

              Corone : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koroni

              ASV : http://www.archiviodistatovenezia.it...a.pl?Lingua=en

              Comment


              • #8
                So I have asked the Maurizio De Mohrenfeld or Maurizio Von Mohrenfeld family ,most distant ancestor to-date from Loano,Liguria early 1700s , if they could do further paper trail research in order to see if there is a connection with the Cretan noble family Maurici ( Maurizio )

                Personally, I will focus on the Venetian period/Greece - primary source archives " only " - to see if my Tsirigakis line has a connection with the Cretan noble family Maurici (Maurizio )

                I will let you know when the Maurizio De Mohrenfeld A457 test result is in.

                It will be positive, but good to have it in writing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maurizio De Mohrenfeld(t)'s ( or Maurizio Von Mohrenfeld ) result is in :

                  He is positive for A457 ( as expected )

                  M67>PF5132>PF7394>PF7395>[A457]

                  So individuals,that have tested positive for A457 in chronological order :

                  Me ( 2014),My son ( 2014),Penso ( 2015 ),Penzo ( 2016) and now Maurizio De Mohrenfeld(t) (2016)

                  A457's current status : Private SNP

                  https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Private_SNP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A457 has been added to FTDNA's haplotree.

                    https://www.familytreedna.com/my/y-dna-haplotree ( J )

                    PF7394>PF7392>A457

                    ( It's current status is : private SNP as defined by ISOGG

                    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Private_SNP )

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CNT View Post

                      Prof.Papadaki referred me to her academia.edu work : " Venetian nobles of Crete during the 16th century "

                      http://tinyurl.com/gnkf2cl ( In Greek )

                      The Maurici/Maurizio family is mentioned on p 311 -312 and they gained Cretan Noble status on
                      19th,March,1575 - there were 4 brothers ( Konstantis ,Nicolos,Michel and Manolis )
                      There were in fact another two brothers.

                      Giovanni and Cristodalo.

                      Also Nicolo married Diana Filomati and they had a son called Francesco who married Elisabeth Venier.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Venier


                      This latter union produced a son called Giorgio.

                      *I would like to thank my genetic cousin R.Penso for contacting ASV (State archives Venice )

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CNT View Post
                        There were in fact another two brothers.

                        Giovanni and Cristodalo.
                        I must mention, that these two didn't acquire Cretan noble status and Prof. Papadaki's paper was about Cretan nobility.

                        Also many thanks to Dott.Bin and Dott.Norio of the Trieste library for sending me all genealogical information they had on the noble Maurizio de Mohrenfeld family (my genetic cousins).

                        Hopefully, more individuals,that have the MAURIZIO surname and who can trace their ancestry to Veneto will Y DNA test.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Last week whilst searching for paper to make some notes I stumbled upon an old notebook.

                          It contained genealogical notes, that I had made whilst I was at GSA Corfu in 2003 ( GSA = Greek state archives )

                          The entry ,that caught my attention was dated 1645 and it was a marriage between a Konstantis G ( G= a variant of the first name giorgio ) and a Maroula Drag(h)ia daughter of Piero.

                          Konstantis = Costantino
                          Maroula = Maria/Mary

                          At the time of making the notes( I DNA tested for the first time a year later in 2004 ) the entry didn't seem relevant, but after my new Y DNA match with MAURIZIO in March,2016.This find is very important because Costantino G is possibly the link between my line and that of the Cretan noble Maurici/Maurizio family.

                          He was born circa 1620 Crete or Corfu ( research is ongoing )

                          http://edit16.iccu.sbn.it/scripts/ic...n=11&res=15959 Venetian author of the 1500s Piero Draghia

                          On finding the above link I decided to e-mail the Romanian institute in Venice to see if there is a link between my ancestor Piero Draghia and the author above of the same name ( don't forget,that Corfu at the time was under the control of the Venetian republic )

                          My ancestor maybe a grandson ....

                          The Draghia family possibly made it's way into Venice via this route :

                          http://www.istro-romanian.net/

                          I would like to thank in public Dr.Stefano Trovato of the Marciana library,Venice for his help.

                          http://marciana.venezia.sbn.it/la-biblioteca/contatti

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CNT View Post
                            The entry ,that caught my attention was dated 1645 and it was a marriage between a Konstantis G ( G= a variant of the first name giorgio ) and a Maroula Drag(h)ia daughter of Piero.

                            Konstantis = Costantino
                            Maroula = Maria/Mary
                            Correction :
                            The date above should be 1646 and in November of that year.

                            The marriage was at a church in the Garitsa area of Corfu town.

                            http://www.infocorfu.gr/garitsa.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              pf7395

                              I am pf7395 and looks like my big y did not test for A457

                              Comment

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