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1st cousin 1xremoved - 2nd cousin

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  • 1st cousin 1xremoved - 2nd cousin

    Hi, I'm Dano's wife, he's getting a bit frustrated so I'm giving him a helping hand to try to discover who his father may be - well I would if I knew what I was doing. So on some earlier threads he was advised to 'fish in all ponds', so I uploaded his DNA from Ancestry to Myheritage as suggested, and amazingly he has a good match with a family who have tested on there. The closest is a 1st cousin 1x removed - 2nd cousin. Going through some of his matches on Ancestry I think I have identified the branch of the family where the link is as they also have the same name in their tree. The surname showed different to his YDNA result, until I investigated a female relative, and discovered she married a man with the YDNA surname. It seems to me that this is where I should be looking, but I'm not sure if I may be looking too far back and the surname is a coincidence. The female relative would be the sister of his match's great grandfather, and she had two sons born in the relevant era, one of whom I have found a death record for. Am I looking in the right place do you think? It would also help if I could find some info other than just a record of this man's birth, no baptism record, no death record, no military record, I can quite understand how Dano got frustrated, I have spent hours going over the same stuff in case I've missed something. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks

  • #2
    The key here is the total shared centiMorgans (cM) of autosomal DNA, as reported on MyHeritage. What is that number? You can look at the chromosome browser in MyHeritage and verify that the total consists only of segments larger than 7 cM (I would subtract out any smaller segments). Let's assume you find that the total is something like 575 to 650 cM. In that case, I would reach for the handy chart that is always next to my computer, the well-known "DNA Detectives Autosomal Statistics Chart" (do a Google search), from which I will read off the possible relationships: First cousin, half aunt/uncle/niece/nephew, great-grandparent/grandchild, great-aunt/uncle/niece/nephew, first cousin once removed, half first cousin, half great-aunt/uncle/niece/nephew. (From ages and other information about the new match, you may be able to rule out a couple of these immediately.)

    You might be lucky enough that Dano has a Y DNA profile that actually falls into a cluster where most of the men have the same surname. That isn't guaranteed! Sometimes it happens, sometimes we end up in a group with many different surnames, which presumably means that the DNA pattern was established before PERMANENT surnames following the paternal line became fashionable in whatever place this group originated. But don't assume too much from the Y DNA result! Surnames have changed throughout history for many reasons that are not nefarious or suspicious.

    The general method at this point is to list all of the possible relationships with this new match based on the degree of autosomal matching, and then draw out all of the possible family trees that could produce this result. Then you start looking for evidence that might disprove one or more of them, and continue until only one possibility remains. Then you keep looking for more evidence!

    On MyHeritage as well as the other possible web sites, you can search for shared matches -- and on MyHeritage, when you "review match", you can actually find any kits that triangulate with Dano and his new match. With a bit of luck and a lot of patience and persistence, you may be able to find the common ancestor of those shared matches. Keep at it!

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    • #3
      Hi, thanks for your reply. I have the cms from MyHeritage here, they are 268.7 cms, with 9 shared segments, the largest segment being 52 cms. They are triangulated matches, as this match has children who have tested, and they show as 2nd cousin 2xremoved on MyHeritage, but there are a couple of others also that triangulate. With regard to the YDNA surname, there are three who have the same surname, a Y67 with 2 differences, a Y67 with 5 differences and a Y37 with 1 difference, that's why when I saw the sister of the match's great grandfather had married a person with this name I started to investigate. They had three sons, one who died at a few months old, one who I thought may be too old for Dano's Mum to be attracted, but not totally ruled out, and one born just a couple of years before his Mum. I am struggling to find information on both, a lot is still confidential I suppose due to the war years, as Dano was born near the end of 1943, which doesn't help. The area we come from suffered heavily during the war, so where they lived is traceable up to a point, then doesn't exist, so it's hard to find where they went after the street they lived in was flattened by the bombing. Also which of the forces they would have been conscripted into is difficult to discover, so again hard to find military history. I think I have the common ancestor, I'm just hoping to be able to find who he is looking for. I will download the DNA Detectives chart and see what I can discover from that, and thank you for your help and input.

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      • #4
        Have you contacted your match at MyHeritage? Is the match male or female?
        If the results came in within the past 6 months, they can be transferred to FTDNA. It is free, just time constrained for MyHeritage. So see if this match has results here or will do so.
        Not sure from your message - does your match have a Tree at MyHeritage which you have looked at?
        or are you just looking on Ancestry at matches to your husband with the MyHeritage's match's surname in their Tree?

        268 cM shared with 52 cM longest is surely (or almost surely?) closer than 3rd cousin, even if your husband is part of an endogamous population.

        The point of triangulation is ensuring the three of you have a common ancestor. Whatever ancestor you and the match share, the match's children also share, of course. The others that triangulate - how much do they share with your husband, and do they have a tree you can see at MyHeritage?

        Trying to decode "The surname showed different to his YDNA result, until I investigated a female relative, and discovered she married a man with the YDNA surname." -- What surname? Whose YDNA result? And are you saying that person has only one surname among his YDNA results?

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        • #5
          Hi, Thanks for your response. We have contacted the match at MyHeritage who is male, and I have only recently transferred the DNA from Ancestry, just before Christmas actually. There is a tree at MyHeritage for this match, which is where I noticed common names from the Ancestry matches. The match has children who have tested and Dano does triangulate with the match and all his children, so I am quite sure the connection is right somewhere. His match, showing as 1st cousin 1x removed has 268cms, with the largest segment at 52cms, and his children range from 161cms to 146cms, with the largest segment at 52.6 and 39cms respectively. The children are quoted as being 1st cousin 2x removed. With help from the wife of Dano's match, we believe the MCRA is his great-grandfather on his mother's side. To clarify the YDNA part of the post, Dano did YDNA111 on FamilyTree, and the three top matches all have the same surname, although not related to each other, I know this as I have contacted them, this surname is not the same as the match on MyHeritage. However when I investigated the sister of the great-grandfather - who we believe is the MCRA - she had married a man with the same surname as the YDNA matches. This led me to investigate her children, and discover a possible candidate to be Dano's father, however I am unable to find any information other than the civil registration of his birth. I have found birth/death/marriage information for the other children but other than the registration of his birth, I can find nothing for this person. Very frustrating.

          I would be glad of your opinion, as I think I am looking in the right place for his father, but any input would be welcome. Thanks again.
          Last edited by Dano; 21 January 2021, 06:17 AM.

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          • #6
            Looks like your on the right track. As for estimating relationship charts, hard to go past this one, along with DNA Painter... cheers https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4/267

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            • #7
              Hi, thanks so much for this. The cousin 'titles' can sometimes be confusing, this makes it clearer and therefore I may have been looking one generation too far back, so this is very helpful. Thank you.

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