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no exact matches with the family assumed to be ours past 5th gen

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  • angelaka
    replied
    Okay, thanks for the info! I'll keep that in mind. On Geni, I've accidentally linked my dad's dna to my own profile and his, even though I'm a female, and it's saying we have a 90% chance of being related within the last 4 generations. You'd think it would be higher than that, since it's linking him to his own results, but I guess that just goes to show how inexact the results can be.

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  • bartarl260
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    I wouldn't focus on exact matches only, my father and his paternal 1st cousin are (their fathers brothers)
    GD of 1 at 12markers, 1 marker mutation (my Father has no exact matches on this level besides his own brother)
    GD of 1 at 25 markers
    GD of 4 at 37 markers, 2 marker mutations, one being a 2 step mutation
    GD of 4 at 67 markers
    my Father is tested to yDNA111, his cousin to yDNA67

    My father and his brother are
    GD of 0 at 12 markers
    GD of 0 at 25 markers
    GD of 1 at 37 markers

    My Uncle and his 1st cousin above are a GD of 3 at 37 markers.
    To throw my own into the mix:
    I share 3,384centimorgans with my father on FamilyFinder. He has 1 half-brother, 1 half-sister, and 1 full sister. As such, autosomal DNA makes it virtually impossible for somebody else to be my father.

    We are:
    GD1 at 25 markers
    GD2 at 37 markers
    and GD2 at 111 markers.

    I'm also Y500 tested, while he is Y700 tested, Of the 430 additional STRs we are both tested on, there is 1 additional difference reported. We also differ on three SNPs on the BigY(again, I'm Y500 tested, he's Y700 tested, should I upgrade, the difference list could grow, or shrink, or stay the same. DNA can be weird sometimes, with a detailed enough test, there is potential to fail to exactly match yourself, but it should be very close all the same, or either the lab screwed up, or you need to see a doctor)

    I seem to recall one of the other project admins in a project I'm in commenting about another father/son project member pair that were at GD4 with respect to each other. So STR based Genetic Distance isn't the end of the story by a long shot.

    Mutations happen at anytime, one can have
    Higher then average mutation rates, make connection seem further back in time then it is
    Average mutations rates
    Lower then average mutation rates, make connection seem closer then it really is
    The above pretty much sums it. mutations are random. And random events are random. Some family lines will seem to not change at all, while other family lines will seem to be all over the genetic map. They're using an assumed average to make estimations on age for lines. Depending on what your line has been doing on the genetic level, that "rule of thumb" could be spot on, or wildly off base.
    Last edited by bartarl260; 1 March 2020, 05:15 AM.

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  • angelaka
    replied
    The upgraded results show only Milliken/Milligan matches at the 111 marker level (besides the distant Austin cousin who was tested).

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  • angelaka
    replied
    In the Austin project, descendants of the family we're supposed to be related to match each other on YDNA, but the line of one of the sons (from which my father and another cousin are descended) doesn't match up with the others. Here in the familytreedna site, none of our matches besides the one cousin are projected to be related to us within 99 generations. A female descendant of the man whose YDNA doesn't match has been shown to be related to the family, so I'm assuming that's through the maternal DNA.

    The problem with it possibly being a mutation is that there are 3 markers that are different, and one of them is a couple of steps off. The total mutations would be 4. I'm not sure how likely that is.
    Last edited by angelaka; 18 February 2020, 11:00 AM.

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  • spruithean
    replied
    So all of these Austin cousins match each other on the Y-DNA or am I missing something? Small genetic distances are to be expected between distant and not so distant relatives, it's a luck of the draw. There is a branch of my male-line which has a distinguishing mutation that helps to differentiate them from the other lineages with the same common ancestor.

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  • angelaka
    replied
    But actually, it looks like no one who's matched us on YDNA besides our known distant cousin is related within the last 99 generations. :/
    Last edited by angelaka; 15 February 2020, 02:49 PM.

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  • angelaka
    replied
    Okay, a dna test done by a female cousin in this line is linking us to at least one of the parents of the man who doesn't match, which would imply that at least his mother was biologically related. That seems to knock down the possibility of adoption, unless his mother adopted a relative.

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  • angelaka
    replied
    But yes, the surname Austin sprang up in various parts of the British Isles around the same time, because it was originally a first name. There are completely different strains from England, Scotland, and Ireland, at least.

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  • angelaka
    replied
    Our Austins were from Ireland. The dna does seem to have a lot of Irish in it, which matches up with the family stories. It is the genetic signature inherited from a 5th century Irish warlord, but it doesn't match the line it's supposed to. I've talked this over with several people and am still trying to figure out what the most logical explanation is. A fellow researcher suggested today that the times surrounding the American Revolution were pretty lawless and there were roving bands of "bad men." A lot of things happened that families didn't talk about.

    There appear to be no Austins in the familytreedna database which match us. I do want to eventually upgrade to the Big Y, but think I'll wait and see what kind of results we get from the 111 marker first.

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  • georgian1950
    replied
    You eventually are going to get to Big Y, so you might as well go ahead and go for it.

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  • John McCoy
    replied
    I don't know if anyone mentioned this in the current thread, but the history of surnames even in England is complicated. It may be that multiple (and genetically unrelated) families ended up with the surname Austin, at some point in the distant past. So, when you encounter Austin families whose Y DNA is way, way different from your father's, you can probably rule out a connection. What you're really looking for, are Austins that DO match your family. Some of the discussion here has to do with how close a match needs to be in order to be sure it really is a meaningful one, and that's quite difficult to answer in many cases, because the data are not conclusive. The best test available for that purpose would be the Big Y, for the reason that it places the Y DNA on a distinct branch of the Y haplotree, where you can easily see whether your family's Y DNA is plausibly connected with that of any other Austin family that has been tested with something resembling Big Y. Even if there are as yet no Austins who are on your particular twig of the Y haplotree, at least that information would tell you which Austins you are NOT directly related to! It has to be said, too, that a lot of this depends on waiting patiently until just the right person happens to take the test!

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  • angelaka
    replied
    Okay, that makes sense. I'll try to talk more family members into getting tested.

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  • prairielad
    replied
    One thing I would recommend, due to the recent mutations I found in my fathers yDNA STRs, is that if you are looking to connect with others that share a distant patriline ancestor, is to test 2 or 3 other known lines that share closer common ancestor (oldest person available to test for this separate but common line)
    ie) If tested father, test his paternal Uncles or cousins if possible.
    If his father had 2 other brothers test someone from each of their lines.

    testing more then one person allows you to "date" recent mutations, which can be "over looked" to a degree.

    For example, my Fathers results are not that useful, but since his cousin is tested who does not have these mutations, his cousins results give more useful results as well as more matches on each level.

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  • prairielad
    replied
    Originally posted by angelaka View Post

    ......

    So this makes me wonder if maybe my dad and the distant cousin actually were descended from the people they're on record as having descended from, but the genes have mutated differently in the branches. As far as I can see, our dna sequence has only 3 numbers different than theirs, but they aren't showing up on my matches list. I'm thinking I'm misunderstanding something big here. Probably genetic distance is very different than the actual numbers in the dna sequence (?)
    Each level of matching only allows for a set number of differences
    12 marker - exact matching only, exception - you are shown GD of 1 if you and match are members of same the FTDNA haplogroup or surname project
    25 marker - up to a GD of 2
    37 Marker - up to a GD of 4
    67 marker - up to a GD of 7
    111 marker - up to a GD of 10

    Note if for a certain marker you are say 10 and the other person for same marker is 12, that is equal to 2 GD, not just 1 GD. It is looked at as two separate mutations. A mutation from 10 to 11, and then another from 11 to 12 (or 12 to 11, and then 11 to 10)
    Last edited by prairielad; 11 February 2020, 12:18 AM.

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  • angelaka
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    I wouldn't focus on exact matches only, my father and his paternal 1st cousin are (their fathers brothers)
    GD of 1 at 12markers, 1 marker mutation (my Father has no exact matches on this level besides his own brother)
    GD of 1 at 25 markers
    GD of 4 at 37 markers, 2 marker mutations, one being a 2 step mutation
    GD of 4 at 67 markers
    my Father is tested to yDNA111, his cousin to yDNA67

    My father and his brother are
    GD of 0 at 12 markers
    GD of 0 at 25 markers
    GD of 1 at 37 markers

    My Uncle and his 1st cousin above are a GD of 3 at 37 markers.
    Really interesting. Thank you for this info.

    Mutations happen at anytime, one can have
    Higher then average mutation rates, make connection seem further back in time then it is
    Average mutations rates
    Lower then average mutation rates, make connection seem closer then it really is
    So this makes me wonder if maybe my dad and the distant cousin actually were descended from the people they're on record as having descended from, but the genes have mutated differently in the branches. As far as I can see, our dna sequence has only 3 numbers different than theirs, but they aren't showing up on my matches list. I'm thinking I'm misunderstanding something big here. Probably genetic distance is very different than the actual numbers in the dna sequence (?)

    Leave a comment:

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