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Matching at 67 and 111 markers but none at 37 ??

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  • Matching at 67 and 111 markers but none at 37 ??

    Hi I am looking at this Y-DNA situation and I have been told (by a supposed expert) that it is highly unusual. I would like to understand it better.
    So, Paul did a 37 marker test and then upgraded to 111.
    He has NO matches, at any genetic distance, at 37 markers.
    He has 6 matches, all at distance 2, at 25 markers.
    He has 4 matches, all at distance 6, at 67 markers.
    He has 2 matches, at distance 9 and 10, at 111 markers.
    The two matches at 111 appears in the list of matches at 67.
    However NONE of the matches at 67 and 111 appear in the list of matches at 25. And why none at 37? This is apparently very rareā€¦..?
    Can anyone explain this to me?
    Many thanks

  • #2
    If you had recent str mutations in the 12, 25 and or 37 level this will cause matches not to show at these levels

    yDNA 12 shows only exact matches, unless you and match are in same project, then they will show if they are a GD of 1
    yDNA 25 shows only matches up to a GD of 2
    yDNA 37 shows only matches up to a GD of 4
    yDNA 67 shows only matches up to a GD of 7
    yDNA 111 shows only matches up to a GD of 10

    For instance my Father and his paternal 1st cousin are a GD of 4 at yDNA 37, their fathers where full brothers.
    Testing multiple family members show that my Father, my Grandfather or both, has had multiple recent STR mutations.
    My Fathers paternal cousin is the closest, GD wise to all surname matches

    My Father yDNA shows 1 mutation at the 12 marker level (no exact matches, all a GD of 1 to surname matches that are in our surname project)
    He has no mutations on the yDNA25 level (13 surname matches a GD of 1, and 9 with a GD of 2)
    He has two mutations on the yDNA37 level, one mutation is a two step mutation. He therefore is a GD of 4 with his cousin
    my Fathers brother is also tested, and he is a GD of 1 to my father and a GD of 3 to their cousin. He does not have the two step mutation, it is just a single step mutation.


    • #3
      I got a new match on 9/5/19. We match at 111 and 25 only. As Prairielad said, nothing unusual about these matches.


      • #4
        Thanks I understand that better now. So I guess the dropdown to increase the default GD has no effect (i.e. does not work as expected, presumably because it would result in a huge list of mostly meaningless matches).


        • #5
          Me again.
          Was just checking FTDNA's own advice on this : they say that for GD of 6 at 67, "it is most likely that they matched 24/25, 36/37 or 37/37 on previous Y-DNA tests." This is not the case here so I still maintain that the scenario is pretty rare.....!
          But feel free to disagree with FTDNA!


          • #6
            Rarer, yes, but everything is based on the average mutation rates of the yDNA STR markers.

            One can have higher then average, average or lower then average mutation rates.

            My example in previous post with my Fathers results show that in that last 2 Generations ( My Great Grandfather to my Grandfather to my Father), has had higher then average mutation rates.
            All figures/estimates (FTDNA) are all way off base for my fathers yDNA due to this. His cousins results are more accurate

            It is likely your yDNA also has had higher then average mutation rates within the last 2-3 Generations. You would have to test multiple lines of this yDNA to pinpoint when mutations happened if interested (triagulation).


            • #7
              I had the same thing with a Burford cousin that tested. Our common Male ancestor was born in 1684. We didn't match at Y-37. We had a genetic distance of 5 at Y-37. When he upgraded to Y-67 and Y-111 he matched.