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Is the Haplogroup a must to make a match viable?

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  • Is the Haplogroup a must to make a match viable?

    When looking at my matches on Y-DNA results, should I look only at those who match my haplogroup which is R-M269? I am trying to solve a NPE but unfortunately, most of my matches are only at 12 markers. I have a dozen on 37 markers and none on 67. I know 12 markers are many generations back so I don’t want to waste my time and I am wondering what should be the minimum requirement to look at possible surnames. Thanks.

  • #2
    The lack of strong matches would suggest to me that you haven't yet found a patrilineal relative close enough to be useful for your research problem. But perhaps you have enough information to rule out some possible families who have already been tested and found not to match you!

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    • #3
      Note, FTDNA only predicts a very basic haplogroup with their STR tests.

      Your yDNA matches will be R-M269 as well regardless what is shown for them.

      R-M269 is an old parent branch of many more recent subclade branches.

      These matches which display something else have more then likely done extra yDNA SNP testing which place them further into the R-M269 branches subclades.

      If you want to know your deep haplogroup subclade branch you belong to you will need to do YDNA SNP testing as well.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by harryangus View Post
        When looking at my matches on Y-DNA results, should I look only at those who match my haplogroup which is R-M269? I am trying to solve a NPE but unfortunately, most of my matches are only at 12 markers. I have a dozen on 37 markers and none on 67. I know 12 markers are many generations back so I don’t want to waste my time and I am wondering what should be the minimum requirement to look at possible surnames. Thanks.
        I have this exact same problem. I'm maybe a little bit lucky because my family has tested + for a (relatively) young, SNP about 2,000 years old. And that I took the 43 marker tests at DNA Heritage way back when, when it was still a thing.

        That particular marker array is useful because the distribution of mutation rates among the individual markers is much flatter in comparison to FTDNA's stock arrays. In most FTDNA arrays, 50% of mutational sensitivity is accounted for by only 15% of markers. That means, relatively speaking, matches registered under the old 43 marker array are significantly less susceptible to understatement through convergence (i.e., the masking of mutations through the reversal of a previous mutation in the reference donor's line, or coincidentally mirroring a mutation in the counter-donor's line).

        So if you want to feel more comfort as to the chances for a remote relationship, I'd compare the markers relevant to the old 43 marker array, if that's an option available to you. All the necessary markers are part of FTDNA's standard 111 marker array.

        I've done this, and my best matches show an expected MRCA born about 830 A.D. That's what is returned at the 50% confidence level for the 43 marker array, and translates to about a 33% confidence level at the 67 marker array. (Sorry, there is still a significant haircut for the reduction in total mutational sensitivity). That's GD of 7 at 43 markers, which falls roughly into the same spot on the probability curve as GD 12 at 67, making no assumptions about their SNP status, or GD 9 at 67 assuming they share my same (remote) SNP status. Which they likely do--several of the diagnostic markers for this SNP status appear in the 43 marker array, and this other guy has all the expected values. Plus, his "close-est" matches are also my closest matches.

        Not as good as SNP testing, or a high resolution test, but better than nothing. Probably better than just the 67 marker test alone. Most definitely better than a 37 marker comparison.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by prairielad View Post
          Note, FTDNA only predicts a very basic haplogroup with their STR tests.

          Your yDNA matches will be R-M269 as well regardless what is shown for them.

          R-M269 is an old parent branch of many more recent subclade branches.

          These matches which display something else have more then likely done extra yDNA SNP testing which place them further into the R-M269 branches subclades.

          If you want to know your deep haplogroup subclade branch you belong to you will need to do YDNA SNP testing as well.
          Precisely this. Also, in some sense non-R-M269 haplogroups may have an advantage in terms of higher chances of matches being legitimate matches and not due to convergence, so long as they have matches.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by harryangus View Post
            When looking at my matches on Y-DNA results, should I look only at those who match my haplogroup which is R-M269? I am trying to solve a NPE but unfortunately, most of my matches are only at 12 markers. I have a dozen on 37 markers and none on 67. I know 12 markers are many generations back so I don’t want to waste my time and I am wondering what should be the minimum requirement to look at possible surnames. Thanks.
            Generally, it's a waste of time looking at matches at 12 markers if you are M269. However, it is possible that you might find a needle in a haystack. To weed out the ones that are definitely not worth exploring, I would:
            1 - Ignore any kits that you do not match at the highest level that you both tested. For example, if another kit tested 67 but you only match at 12, ignore that kit. Only other hand, if the other kit only tested 12 and you match at 12, you might possibly match at 37 and 67, so possibly worth exploring.
            2 - Ignore any kits that have a haplotype which is not M269 or a subbranch below M269.

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