What's my next best step?

[Nanaof3]

My first post. Looking for advice on what to do next. Here goes: looking for parents of John Boston 1737-1810, found in Onlsow North Carolina in the 1760's. My husband has done Autosomal testing and Y-37, upgraded to 67.

Y 37 confirmed match to a male 4th cousin. My husband and the 4th cousins are both descendants of two sons of James Boston, son of John. This is proven by family records turned over to NC Archives and written by James.


Y 37 turned up various surnames, but quite a few Byrnes or variant of the name and Reid or Reeds, a couple McInvale or variants of the name and a couple Gastons. No other Boston surnames, other than 4th cousin. he has a total of 4 pages of matches.

Y 67 results exploded with many more Gastons and McInvale matches. Genetic distance of 2, 3, and 4's are all but one from these names, total of 8. Reids and Byrnes show back up at 5, 6, also with Gastons and more McInvales. There are also some O'Neills mixed in at these levels(1 O'Neill at 3). At GD of 7, we still have Gastons, Byrnes, and other names as well. He has 7 pages of matches total.

Many of the Gastons and McInvales have done Y111 and or big Y tests. I don't know whether or not to upgrade to Y 111 now while I can get a discount. I don't know much about the SNP or STR tests and whether that would help me more than upgrading to the Y 111. I can't afford the Big Y, so that is out of the options. Halogroup is R-M269

I have been told that the Gastons and McInvales are connected and are both from the McMillan clan from Scotland. Family history says the Bostons came from Scotland but I have no documented proof. Also been told that since it is a "location name" that it could have been taken as a surname when the immigrant came over.

My husband's Y DNA is also part of the Boston Surname Group. However this has not helped us since there has only been about 10 men tested. He and his 4th cousin match and are in a group by themselves. Neither match the Bostons from the Eastern Shore of MD/VA (I tracked down a documented descendant of this line and had him tested, he is in a group by himself). Husband and cousin do not match the Boston line from Southern Virginia, although my husband has a couple automsomal matches to people from this line, 5th - th cousins. Also doesn't match the German Bostain line from PA into Rowan, NC. It is frustrating because I was sure he would match the Eastern Shore of VA/MD line. A descendant applying for DAR status in the 1940's wrote on her application that the Bostons were on the ES in the 1660's. I also found at least 3 other surname families that the Bostons marry into later in NC that were there on the ES in the later 1600's. One ended up in Onslow County where our John Boston lived.

So please advise what would be my next step? I need to make a decision in the next couple of days while the upgrade sale is on till the 31st. Thanks!

[John McCoy]

If you can afford the Big Y test, the results, when carefully and fully interpreted, should position your Boston family on some little twig of the Y haplotree, and you will be able to see clearly where your family falls relative to the other surnames you mention, to the extent that they have also taken Big Y or an equivalent test. This test, based on a huge number of SNP's, is far more sensitive than STR-based comparisons and leads to an unambiguous placement of your sample in the haplotree.

The genetic evidence will define your genealogical problem, but it probably won't solve it. It is very doubtful that it will give you the name of the mysterious ancestor, for example. However, you have already determined that there is no Y DNA connection with the other Boston families that have been tested, so you know there is no patrilineal connection.

The significance of finding many surnames within a group of Y DNA matches MAY be that the defining mutations (of STR's or SNP's) occurred before stable surnames became fashionable in whatever area where the family originated, with the result that related families ended up with different surnames. That could have been quite far back, in medieval times! However, the possibility of a more recent surname change can't be ruled out either. That leaves you with more general research problems, such as attempting to trace the movements of your Boston family and their neighbors -- in effect, trying to place them as part of a group that may have migrated together. And, if that group turns out to contain families with the other surnames that came up among the Y DNA matches, you may begin to speculate and maybe turn up some records that point to more solid connections among them.

There is also the possibility that, eventually, other, closer Y DNA matches will turn up. For that, you just have to be very, very patient -- it could happen!

[georgian1950]

Y 67 results exploded with many more Gastons and McInvale matches. Genetic distance of 2, 3, and 4's are all but one from these names, total of 8. Reids and Byrnes show back up at 5, 6, also with Gastons and more McInvales. There are also some O'Neills mixed in at these levels(1 O'Neill at 3). At GD of 7, we still have Gastons, Byrnes, and other names as well. He has 7 pages of matches total.

Many of the Gastons and McInvales have done Y111 and or big Y tests. I don't know whether or not to upgrade to Y 111 now while I can get a discount. I don't know much about the SNP or STR tests and whether that would help me more than upgrading to the Y 111. I can't afford the Big Y, so that is out of the options. Halogroup is R-M269

If you want to roll the dice on a smaller bet, see what terminal SNP's your Y-67 matches show. If one comes up a lot, you could order that individual SNP from FTDNA for $39. Or go could check the SNP Packs for one that covers the SNPs that are showing up. If FTDNA will not let you order that SNP, you could look at the tree and select the next one available further back. Another possibility is YSEQ. Search on that to get its website. They sell individual SNP tests for $18 and some economical SNP panels, too. I don't think their results can be listed in an FTDNA project, but at least for your purposed you would know.


Jack

[Nanaof3]

Now I am lost

Jack, you have lost me, how do I do what you suggest?

[georgian1950]

Jack, you have lost me, how do I do what you suggest?

OK, logon to your FTDNA account. On the homepage, select the 'myDNA' dropdown menu, then 'Y-DNA', and finally 'matches'. Run the report for Y-67. The second column on the right will be headed 'Terminal SNP'. The kits which have not had further testing will probably just show M269. Go down the column and make a note of the other values which you find.

Next, go back to the dropdown and select 'Haplotree & SNPs'. That will show the SNPs which are under you. Start searching for the terminal SNPs from your matches and see where they all lie. The display will let you see which ones you can order. If a SNP Pack is available which covers several from your matches, you might want to order that, or just order the one which you think will most likely place you. If the one you want is not available from FTDNA, you could order the first available one above what you want, try to persuade FTDNA to let you place the order, or check if YSEQ has that SNP available for testing. Even if YSEQ doesn't, it will add it to their catalog at a low price if you can give them the information needed to identify the SNP.

Take a look and see what you come up with. If you come up with a few SNPs from your matches, post them here and we will take a look at what might be the best for you to try.

Hope this helps.

Jack

[Nanaof3]

And now

Ok Jack, I went through the 7 pages and the most occuring I have are 17 with L159, 10 with A10317 and 4 with BY17945. These include the names I mentioned like McInvale, Gaston, O'Neill.

I then went to the halpotee and SNP's. I started looking for the three: L159, A10317, and BY 17945 and wasn't sure if I should look on the left or the column on the right. Honestly, that is where I got lost again. Couldn't find them and the list goes on and on. I see where it says Order Selected SNP's, so I am assuming I should look on the right, correct. I will go back and start witht he L159, maybe it will be easier to find.

There are numerous other groups but most have 3 or less and some only 1 member.

So, am I on the right track. If it would help, I can give you my kit number and you can take a look yourself, if that is not a bad idea to share it on this site.

I appreciate your help. Would ordering these be more helpful than upgrading to the Y 111 since a good % of the surnames I have listed have done the higher testing?

Thanks again.

Mary

[Nanaof3]

found them

Duh, went back and found the search box and located the 3 groups I needed. L159 is by itself, BY17945 is right under A10317, so does that mean it is included with A10317 as it doesn't have the word Add by it?

[georgian1950]

Hi Mary,

I'd rather not take a look at your kit. I'd have to have your password and sign on to your account. Not that I'm not trustworthy, but it is just not good policy. To let someone else get into your account, you need to really know and trust him. I wish FTDNA had a way that someone could get permission to look at someone else's account without actually signing on. Maybe there is and I just don't know.

Anyhow A10317 and BY17945 are both under A10323, so a kit is in one or the other. Those two lines come together at A10323. There is a possibility that another branch exists under A10323 which has not been discovered yet. The 'Haplotree & SNPs' display is for your specific kit, so if a SNP has an add button to the right, you can order it. Does your display allow you to order A10323, A10317, or BY17945?

YSEQ has A10323 and A10317 in its catalog, but I don't see BY17945. Which of those SNPs will FTDNA let you order? If none, I think I would have your husband test for A10323 at YSEQ ($18 plus modest postage to send the kit to Germany) just to confirm where he is in the tree.


Jack

[Nanaof3]

Ok

Good morning Jack,

The ADD is beside A10317, not A10323 and by L159. When I put YSEQ in the search box, it says "No result found."

Is there a way for me to private message you my password or do you want me to give you my email address and then I can send you my password?

I will be back in a couple of hours, exercise class is coming up.

Mary

[georgian1950]

Good morning Jack,

The ADD is beside A10317, not A10323 and by L159. When I put YSEQ in the search box, it says "No result found."

Is there a way for me to private message you my password or do you want me to give you my email address and then I can send you my password?

I will be back in a couple of hours, exercise class is coming up.

Mary

Hi Mary,

YSEQ is a competitive company to FTDNA so I wasn't sure if it was proper to post a link to it on FTDNA's forums. I meant for you to do an internet search on 'YSEQ' to find its site, but anyhow here is its link:

http://www.yseq.net/

Does each surname for your matches group on a particular SNP? Which surname are you getting the closest matches on (lowest Genetic Distance on Y-67)?

Jack

[Nanaof3]

My husband has one match at GD of 2 - the match is a McInvaille. At GD 3, he has 1 McInvaille, 1 Noble, 1 O'Neill, at GD 4, he has 2 Gastons, 3 McInvales, at GD 5, he has 3 Reeds, 2 Byrnes, and 4 Gastons.

The earliest known ancestor for the McInvailles are the same person but that is not the case for the Gastons. I have been told there were 3 brothers whose lines have all had the y test done. The matches for the Gastons continue to GD 7.

Six Gastons are A10317, along with a few other surnames for a total of 10. One Gaston is in the group L159 of which I have 17 people, various surnames including 1 O'Neill.
the McInvailles are all BY17945.

I will check out the link you sent. Sorry, I'm not the best with all the different sites there are to use.

I saw something about private messages here. How do you go about doing that?

I am assuming if I order the A10317 and L159, how do I order a test for my husband? Do they do that from his sample he has already given.
?

[georgian1950]

My husband has one match at GD of 2 - the match is a McInvaille. At GD 3, he has 1 McInvaille, 1 Noble, 1 O'Neill, at GD 4, he has 2 Gastons, 3 McInvales, at GD 5, he has 3 Reeds, 2 Byrnes, and 4 Gastons.

The earliest known ancestor for the McInvailles are the same person but that is not the case for the Gastons. I have been told there were 3 brothers whose lines have all had the y test done. The matches for the Gastons continue to GD 7.

Six Gastons are A10317, along with a few other surnames for a total of 10. One Gaston is in the group L159 of which I have 17 people, various surnames including 1 O'Neill.
the McInvailles are all BY17945.

I will check out the link you sent. Sorry, I'm not the best with all the different sites there are to use.

I saw something about private messages here. How do you go about doing that?

I am assuming if I order the A10317 and L159, how do I order a test for my husband? Do they do that from his sample he has already given.
?

OK, you do not need to test L159. It is pretty clear that your husband falls in that subclade.

Yes, they use the sample on file.


If you click on a user ID, you should get a dropdown menu that lets you send a PM.


I am guessing that your husband would be most closely related to the McInvailles, so he is likely BY17945. Unfortunately neither FTDNA offers that to you or YSEQ has it in their catalog. Perhaps you can talk FTDNA into letting you order BY17945.


You might consider testing at YSEQ for A10323 to confirm that he is at least that far down the branches.


Jack