Searching for my surname

[paul_roe]

My great-grandfather Charles Osborn Roe was born out of wedlock and was given his mothers surname. I took the Y-DNA37 test in hopes of determining what my family surname should be.

I have been working on my genealogy for about 30 years now, and early in my research I had been in contact with a number of my oldest relatives who had no idea who his father was. One of them a granddaughter of Charles passed down a story that she had been told by her mother. She was told that Charles's mother went to take care of a sick Aunt and the old uncle got her. When she questioned her mother further about who the Uncle was she was told that those things were not talked about much back in those days.

Anyway, here are the results of my test:

Genetic Distance 0 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 0 - *** DuRard
Genetic Distance 1 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 2 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 2 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 3 - *** Gutierrez
Genetic Distance 4 - *** Alvarez
Genetic Distance 4 - *** Alvarez
Genetic Distance 4 - *** Cagle

Charles Osborn Roe had an Aunt (his mothers sister) who was married to a Cagle. Is it reasonable to assume that my family surname should be Cagle?

The Cagle who is genetic distance 0 in my list is descended from the same Cagle in question.

Is there anything I should do to verify this further?

The DuRard in my list who is genetic distance 0 is a little confusing. There are no DuRards in my family tree to this point.

Thanks for your assistance!

[DRNewcomb]

Maybe Uncle Cagle also "knocked up" a DuRard.

[paul_roe]

That is the first thing that crossed my mind.

[John McCoy]

If the proposed relationship between the 0 distance Cagle and yourself is closer than third cousin, a Family Finder test on both parties (or, even better, on any surviving relatives of the previous generations) should be informative. Also, such a test could well turn up other autosomal matches that would add another layer of evidence.

[Jim Barrett]

My great-grandfather Charles Osborn Roe was born out of wedlock and was given his mothers surname. I took the Y-DNA37 test in hopes of determining what my family surname should be.

Genetic Distance 0 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 0 - *** DuRard
Genetic Distance 1 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 2 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 2 - *** Cagle
Genetic Distance 3 - *** Gutierrez
Genetic Distance 4 - *** Alvarez
Genetic Distance 4 - *** Alvarez
Genetic Distance 4 - *** Cagle

Is there anything I should do to verify this further?

Thanks for your assistance!

Upgrade to 67 markers to see if the matches still hold up. Hopefully some of these matches have already upgraded.

[MoberlyDrake]

I would do the Family Finder test and look for close relatives. Do the Ancestry DNA test too, if you can afford it. There you may get one or two close Cagles with a list of shared matches. You may be able to construct trees for some of the shared matches. It's a lot of work because Ancestry provides no tools and no one answers messages.

[spruithean]

I understand what you mean with the premise of what your surname should be, however the Roe surname is very much part of your tree and very much your family's name.

However I would keep an eye on those Cagle matches and perhaps get some FamilyFinder tests and perhaps research the various other surnames in your match list snd see if families of those names lived in the area around the time of your great-great grandmother's life. There couks very well be something to these Cagles!

All the best.

[paul_roe]

If the proposed relationship between the 0 distance Cagle and yourself is closer than third cousin, a Family Finder test on both parties (or, even better, on any surviving relatives of the previous generations) should be informative. Also, such a test could well turn up other autosomal matches that would add another layer of evidence.

John, thanks for the suggestion! I have done autosomal testing with Ancestry. I have quite a few connections with folks who have Cagles in their family tree. The problem is they would be related to me anyway through the Rowe sister.

I have imported my Ancestry Kit into FTDNA. Some of my YDNA matches have FF by their name which is supposed to indicate that they have had the Family Finder test done, but I am having trouble locating their results.

[John McCoy]

You should also upload your original autosomal raw data from AncestryDNA to the free GEDmatch web site. GEDmatch has (autosomal) kits uploaded from all of the major vendors, so you may find other matches. Also, the tools available on GEDmatch are extremely helpful. Among other things, you can compare kits in all combinations and thus identify "triangulate" individual segments.

[paul_roe]

I understand what you mean with the premise of what your surname should be, however the Roe surname is very much part of your tree and very much your family's name.

However I would keep an eye on those Cagle matches and perhaps get some FamilyFinder tests and perhaps research the various other surnames in your match list snd see if families of those names lived in the area around the time of your great-great grandmother's life. There couks very well be something to these Cagles!

All the best.

Thank you very much for your input. I am indeed very proud of my Roe/Rowe heritage. They have been the centerpiece of my research for 30 years.

If my male line does descend from the Cagles I am sure that I will find plenty to be proud of with my Cagle heritage as well, regardless of the circumstances of my great-grandfathers birth.

[paul_roe]

You should also upload your original autosomal raw data from AncestryDNA to the free GEDmatch web site. GEDmatch has (autosomal) kits uploaded from all of the major vendors, so you may find other matches. Also, the tools available on GEDmatch are extremely helpful. Among other things, you can compare kits in all combinations and thus identify "triangulate" individual segments.

Thanks again John. My Ancestry kit has been on GEDmatch for a little over a year. I'm very new at trying to use DNA for genealogy and determining the significance of the test results has been difficult for me. I have a hard time understanding the tools at GEDmatch and have very little time to study it. 10-12 hour a day job keeps me occupied. I am learning a little at a time.

[Germanica]

John, thanks for the suggestion! I have done autosomal testing with Ancestry. I have quite a few connections with folks who have Cagles in their family tree. The problem is they would be related to me anyway through the Rowe sister.

So they are ALL descended from the children Cagle and Rowe's sister had together? Because Uncle Cagle, if he was not the father, was not related by DNA to Charles, so the only Cagles you should be DNA related to are those descended from the said children. If you're finding autosomal matches with Cagle descendants who are NOT descended from these children, that is very strong evidence that Uncle Cagle was the father of Charles.

Also, have you tried searching your autosomal DNA matches for DuRard?

[Fern]

I have quite a few connections with folks who have Cagles in their family tree. The problem is they would be related to me anyway through the Rowe sister.

Paul - do you mean you have dna matches with people who have Cagles in their family tree? You won't have these because they're "related through the Rowe sister", which is just a Cagle connection by marriage.

Ooops, delayed posting this and now realise Germanica has made the same point!

[paul_roe]

So they are ALL descended from the children Cagle and Rowe's sister had together? Because Uncle Cagle, if he was not the father, was not related by DNA to Charles, so the only Cagles you should be DNA related to are those descended from the said children. If you're finding autosomal matches with Cagle descendants who are NOT descended from these children, that is very strong evidence that Uncle Cagle was the father of Charles.

Also, have you tried searching your autosomal DNA matches for DuRard?

I have 21 matches in my AncestryDNA kit who have Cagle in their family tree, only 3 of them are directly descended from sister Rowe. So, I see what you're saying. Thank you very much for pointing that out. I have 1 match at Ancestry with several generations of Durards in their family tree. They did live in the same area as the DuRard match in my Y-DNA kit. I'm not sure what to make of that.

[MoberlyDrake]

Carefully study all the Cagles who are not descended from sister Rowe!!! Are they close matches to you? Do all or most of them have ancestors in common? Are they related to the Cagles who ARE descended from Rowe?