Y-67 with no matches above 12. What now?

[Armando]

I am not pushing anyone to do SNP testing but if you set out on a journey you have two choices. You can turn and go back or you can go on until you get to your destination.

Well stated.

@S9 H9
To add to why I pushed it in this case is because the OP was "not looking for proof of paternity, but rather a connection with the surname, which is unique and hails from a somewhat specific area in Germany" with a person that could have an NPE in the paternal line.

Without a close STR match at 67 markers the next best thing is the BigY to possibly find out if there is a match out there from 1,000 to 2,000 years ago. STR markers change too quickly and randomly. SNPs are handed down unchanged, except in extremely rare circumstances, and new ones are created every 3 to 5 generations. Once she has the BigY results of her husband then she can potentially find a match with a paternal line from the same region of Germany regardless of the surname. If it is the same surname it is further back than the STR markers can show a match. If it isn't there was likely a surname change but at least it puts his paternal line in the same region. Her only other option is for her to just wait for a match to the testing he has done now but that would leave one stone unturned.

[1798]

The "where to go now?" type of question totally depends upon what one is trying to accomplish.

If the OP is trying to verify the parentage and grandparents of the male then there is nothing quite like getting close Y-line relatives to test. So if this is the goal the next step is working on the (purported) family and extended family members to test. This might take time and some sweet talking but it is what can get the strong negative or positive results for which one is looking.

I always see people around here who keep pushing SNP testing, but that begs the question of why test if there is no one to match in the database? Certainly if one is interested in increasing the knowledge of the Y tree then you'll not need me to try and either convince or dissuade you.

But if someone is interested in genealogy then I propose that the best return on the money is simply getting more people to do the basic Y-67 test. One BigY is still 3 times the cost of a Y-67.

I am not pushing anyone to do SNP testing but if you set out on a journey you have two choices. You can turn and go back or you can go on until you get to your destination.

[S9 H9]

The "where to go now?" type of question totally depends upon what one is trying to accomplish.

If the OP is trying to verify the parentage and grandparents of the male then there is nothing quite like getting close Y-line relatives to test. So if this is the goal the next step is working on the (purported) family and extended family members to test. This might take time and some sweet talking but it is what can get the strong negative or positive results for which one is looking.

I always see people around here who keep pushing SNP testing, but that begs the question of why test if there is no one to match in the database? Certainly if one is interested in increasing the knowledge of the Y tree then you'll not need me to try and either convince or dissuade you.

But if someone is interested in genealogy then I propose that the best return on the money is simply getting more people to do the basic Y-67 test. One BigY is still 3 times the cost of a Y-67.

[lgmayka]

On 11/16/2014, the R1a Project submitted a proposal for an R1a-Z280 SNP panel, consisting of 80 SNPs. Beyond an initial acknowledgement, I have received no further news on it.

I don't think it makes sense to submit another proposal from the same haplogroup project until the first proposal is acted upon.

[lgmayka]

Utilizing new SNP-processing technology, we’re able to test 30, 60, or 90 SNPs specific to a phylogenetic branch in a single panel.

In a personal followup email, I was told:
---
1. The panel can start pretty much anywhere that makes sense for your haplogroup. If you want to start at the top and choose various branches to narrow a broad predicted haplogroup in what amounts to a targeted backbone test, that's fine.

2. Unfortunately the two forms [SNP panel vs. individual SNP test] go different places to different teams so if you want an individual SNP considered, it needs to go on the SNP form. However, you don't have to use the form we sent out to submit a panel. If you'd like to use a spreadsheet and send it to me, you can do that.

3. Use the number of SNPs that make sense for the panel. And it doesn't have to be exact numbers...you could do 27 or 70, etc. I'm not sure on the costs yet, I think Bennett's still working on that part. Some haplogroups don't have 90 SNPs that work really be necessary to include in a panel. Others can use ~90. It does take a bit longer to test and vet 90 SNPs over 30, but when it comes time to process, there won't be a difference in the turnaround time.

4. If you submit a SNP that's in an STR or has some other challenge, then it's best to also include an alternate, including synonymous SNPs. They won't be using Sanger sequencing, but it won't be a Big Y-type sequencing either. I don't have clearance to discuss the specifics of the technology involved, but I can tell you it's not either of those.

Don't hesitate to ask questions as you're compiling your panel. The team is working on a couple of new panels now...they can't do more than a couple at once, so you can take your time to collect the right SNPs for your group.
---

[Armando]

He has 12 at DYS393, and his nearest Ysearch neighbor appears to have tested P312- U106- .

Thanks

[lgmayka]

There has to be a way that FTDNA can deliver these for less money and in a more efficient manner. This is their job. They are top of the range scientists.

On 10/17/2014, haplogroup project administrators received the email below.
---
We’re excited to announce a new SNP-based product, the Essential SNP Bundle! After testing a prototype using the R-M222 subclade, we are ready to open testing to all haplogroups!

Utilizing new SNP-processing technology, we’re able to test 30, 60, or 90 SNPs specific to a phylogenetic branch in a single panel. This saves a significant amount of time and money by testing all the appropriate SNPs at once!

Now we need you, the haplogroup project administrators, because you know your haplogroup and branches' phylogeny better than anyone else!

We will:

1. Add any appropriate Big Y SNPs of value.
2. Build the panel.
3. Do a pre-release test run for viability using volunteers who agree to be included.
4. When successful, release the new clade.
5. Attach the new clade to the Y-haplotree.
6. Make the panel available for public sale.
7. Show tested SNPs, both positive and negative, on the tester’s haplogroup page.
8. Update the haplogroup badge if it changes because of the test.

Panels will be developed on a first-approved, first-served basis. In other words, if you submit your panel, but it takes longer to vet the SNPs and prepare it for trial, then it is possible that someone whose panel was submitted after yours may make it to production first, if it doesn’t require as much verification and preparation to make it a robust, inclusive panel.

Thank you for your help and support. We look forward to working with you on this exciting new product!
---

[lgmayka]

What makes you think he is P312- U106- ?

He has 12 at DYS393, and his nearest Ysearch neighbor appears to have tested P312- U106- .

[dna]

I don't get it. The average number of SNPs from the Big-Y under U106 is 36. Some people have more and some have less. There has to be a way that FTDNA can deliver these for less money and in a more efficient manner. This is their job. They are top of the range scientists.

FTDNA is working on it (SNP packs). It was discussed in the forums, and a pilot was done for M222.
http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=36167 SNP-Packs
http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=36271 M222 bundle results are posting

W.

[1798]

I agree that it is expensive but it's more than 30 SNPs if you include both known SNPs and novel SNPs and there is no other test in the world that will test for all of those SNPs for a lower price.

I don't get it. The average number of SNPs from the Big-Y under U106 is 36. Some people have more and some have less. There has to be a way that FTDNA can deliver these for less money and in a more efficient manner. This is their job. They are top of the range scientists.

[Armando]

Yes, you are right but the Big-Y is a out of price range for most testers.
Everyone who is P312 or U106 should have the same number of SNPs back to Y-Adam so one is paying for SNPs that they don't need. One may find only 20-30 new SNPs in their Y-line and it is a lot of money for 30 SNPs. The test needs to be refined.

I agree that it is expensive but it's more than 30 SNPs if you include both known SNPs and novel SNPs and there is no other test in the world that will test for all of those SNPs for a lower price.

[1798]

The problem is the modals are incorrect a lot of times. There's no replacement for SNP testing and BigY is the best way to do SNP testing.

Yes, you are right but the Big-Y is a out of price range for most testers.
Everyone who is P312 or U106 should have the same number of SNPs back to Y-Adam so one is paying for SNPs that they don't need. One may find only 20-30 new SNPs in their Y-line and it is a lot of money for 30 SNPs. The test needs to be refined.

[Armando]

He is closest to the L150* modal.

The problem is the modals are incorrect a lot of times. There's no replacement for SNP testing and BigY is the best way to do SNP testing.

[1798]

What makes you think he is P312- U106- ?

He is closest to the L150* modal.

[Armando]

He has no matches at 57/67. This may be the best project to get some advice. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/

What makes you think he is P312- U106- ?