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  • R-M269 to R-L21

    Hi all

    I don't know too much about haplogroups and SNPs. With the recent update I've gone from R-M269 to R-L21. Is there a big difference between them and if so what might it be?

  • #2
    R-M269 to R-L21

    This is one I'd like to have answered too. Same thing happened with my brother's Y-test. His test is now saying he is presumed positive for L-21 when he originally tested he was R-M 269. And there doesn't seem to be a place to test the L-21 to confirm that level. Other SNP's passed that level are shown as available for testing???

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    • #3
      Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
      With the recent update I've gone from R-M269 to R-L21. Is there a big difference between them and if so what might it be?
      L21 is much more specific than M269. But if your R-L21 classification is shown in red or brown (rather than green), it is merely a prediction. You could order the L21 SNP test for $39, or--better--join the R1b haplogroup project and consult its administrator.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by keigh View Post
        This is one I'd like to have answered too. Same thing happened with my brother's Y-test. His test is now saying he is presumed positive for L-21 when he originally tested he was R-M 269. And there doesn't seem to be a place to test the L-21 to confirm that level. Other SNP's passed that level are shown as available for testing???
        FTDNA is currently updating the haplotree and that might be the reason you don't see an option to order the L21 SNP test. Can you get a screen shot of your haplotree page with just the portion that has L21 in it and upload it as an attachment to determine if that is the problem?

        If you have Windows you can use the Snipping Tool to create the screenshot.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jtoml3 View Post
          Hi all

          I don't know too much about haplogroups and SNPs. With the recent update I've gone from R-M269 to R-L21. Is there a big difference between them and if so what might it be?
          Yes. Thousands of years. M269 is the ancestor of L21. If you google SNP L21 you will find lots of links on the internet about this group.

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          • #6
            haplogroup SNP confusion

            I also want to understand how one should interpret haplogroup results vs SNP results. How does the testing differ and what does this mean in comparing the project group results? If you are a close match on a Y-DNA line, shouldn't the haplogroups for Y-DNA match? Two of my family group projects have unexpected haplogroup differences, some E others I when most are R-M269. Do they look at the same thing when assigning a haplogroup or something else and could people with commmon paternal ancestors be in different haplogroup? I need help in interpreting group results. Thanks
            Susan

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Susan View Post
              I also want to understand how one should interpret haplogroup results vs SNP results. How does the testing differ and what does this mean in comparing the project group results? If you are a close match on a Y-DNA line, shouldn't the haplogroups for Y-DNA match? Two of my family group projects have unexpected haplogroup differences, some E others I when most are R-M269. Do they look at the same thing when assigning a haplogroup or something else and could people with commmon paternal ancestors be in different haplogroup? I need help in interpreting group results. Thanks
              Susan
              Men who are a close match in haplotype can be in the same halogroup but different subgroups.
              Could people with commmon paternal ancestors be in different haplogroups? No.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                Men who are a close match in haplotype can be in the same halogroup but different subgroups.
                Could people with commmon paternal ancestors be in different haplogroups? No.
                Of course this depends on how the Haplogroup has been determined - is it predicted or SNP tested - have both people tested to the same level of SNPs. R-L21 is a subgroup of R-M269.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Armando View Post
                  FTDNA is currently updating the haplotree and that might be the reason you don't see an option to order the L21 SNP test. Can you get a screen shot of your haplotree page with just the portion that has L21 in it and upload it as an attachment to determine if that is the problem?

                  If you have Windows you can use the Snipping Tool to create the screenshot.
                  I hope I attached this correctly. The L-21 looks as if it is only a predicted result, but then again the M269 also looks like it was only a predicted result???? Most (12 out of 16 matches) for my brother at 67 markers (distance 4-5) are in the L-226 Haplogroup and have terminal SNPs of L-226. The other 4 matches at 4 to 5 steps, 3 are L-21, and 1 is M-269 which is where my brother started.
                  Attached Files

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by keigh View Post
                    I hope I attached this correctly. The L-21 looks as if it is only a predicted result, but then again the M269 also looks like it was only a predicted result???? Most (12 out of 16 matches) for my brother at 67 markers (distance 4-5) are in the L-226 Haplogroup and have terminal SNPs of L-226. The other 4 matches at 4 to 5 steps, 3 are L-21, and 1 is M-269 which is where my brother started.
                    M269>L21>L266 is the way that the SNPs are in descendant pattern. If your brother has 63/67 close matches to the L266 testers then he is possibly L266. Your best bet is to pay for a single L266 SNP test to be sure.

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                    • #11
                      I tested a cousin who was predicted M269 to P312 and L21. He's positive for L21 and that is his stated haplogroup now. All of his matches say p312. When messaging with one of the matches he said we were in diff haplogroups but he hadn't tested for L21....so unless your matches tell you then you don't know how far they've tested.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by keigh View Post
                        I hope I attached this correctly. The L-21 looks as if it is only a predicted result, but then again the M269 also looks like it was only a predicted result???? Most (12 out of 16 matches) for my brother at 67 markers (distance 4-5) are in the L-226 Haplogroup and have terminal SNPs of L-226. The other 4 matches at 4 to 5 steps, 3 are L-21, and 1 is M-269 which is where my brother started.
                        I can't see the screenshot because FTDNA hasn't approved it yet. Either way, I looked at some other kits and now I can see that they can't order predicted positive SNPs either. I hadn't ever noticed that before because normally I try to get people to test SNPs several steps below their predicted haplogroup and I tested down to my terminal SNP several months ago. I looked at a screenshot I had from October and it didn't have the option to order the predicted positive SNP either.

                        You can put in a ticket or you can wait until an SNP-pack comes out and tests the SNP anyway.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                          M269>L21>L266 is the way that the SNPs are in descendant pattern. If your brother has 63/67 close matches to the L266 testers then he is possibly L266. Your best bet is to pay for a single L266 SNP test to be sure.
                          I don't see L266 under L21 in the FTDNA haplotree and if he were to test positive for it he would be placed under R2 instead of L21.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tenn4ever View Post
                            I tested a cousin who was predicted M269 to P312 and L21. He's positive for L21 and that is his stated haplogroup now. All of his matches say p312. When messaging with one of the matches he said we were in diff haplogroups but he hadn't tested for L21....so unless your matches tell you then you don't know how far they've tested.
                            Unless they check their match list periodically and look for an SNP under the Terminal SNP column.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Armando View Post
                              I don't see L266 under L21 in the FTDNA haplotree and if he were to test positive for it he would be placed under R2 instead of L21.
                              L226,a typo.

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